I didn’t pay to watch Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice because I’m failing to see the struggle. College Humor best surmises my disposition of the movie. Besides, why go the make-believe DC Comics route when we have a real-world shield and spear paradox between two super-powered nemeses right here before us: Aprilia’s Tuono V4 1100 Factory and KTM’s 1290 Super Duke R.

2016 Ultimate Streetfighter Shootout Prelude

These two bikes are so equally matched E-i-C Kevin Duke and I nearly resorted to jello wrasslin’ in an effort to determine a winner. Even then we didn’t do such a good job, nitpicking over a few subjective personal preferences is what it came down to in the end. The microbial pubic hair of difference in the ScoreCard is nary worth mentioning, and probably begs a rematch with different editors aboard to see if there’s a change in outcome. But if you’re curious as to how this fight went, here’s the blow-by-blow account.

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In an effort to put money where our mouths are, Duke and I decided to ride these two streetfighters to and from a Let’s Ride track day at Buttonwillow Raceway Park about 150 miles from our homes. The coolish temps and brief rain en route to our destination the night before proved trifling compared to running out of gas (Duke’s fault), and flat tire (my fault, but still Duke’s fault) on our ride home. Otherwise, the Tuono and SDR proved to be exactly what we’ve said on previous occasions; that both bikes are comfortably capable of riding to, participating in, and riding home from a track day.

After running out of fuel on the Tuono on the way back from Buttonwillow, T-Rod used the KTM to push the Priller at up to 55 mph on the shoulder of a busy I-5, where the SDR’s rear tire found a sharp object.

After running out of fuel on the Tuono on the way back from Buttonwillow, T-Rod used the KTM to push the Priller at up to 55 mph on the shoulder of a busy I-5, where the SDR’s rear tire found a sharp object.

These bikes are so closely matched even the degree of comfort each bike offers is debatable. While the SDR rider enjoys a slightly more upright seating position and ample legroom, the Tuono pilot has the benefit of a nicely supportive seat and some wind protection from the bikini fairing. The Tuono’s eccentrically adjustable shifter and rear brake peg are a nice touch, but it doesn’t have the adjustable clutch lever of the KTM, nor is its adjustable front brake lever as precise as the high-quality item on the SDR. We’re of the opinion that comfort really comes down to the size of the rider. Taller/larger riders will likely prefer the KTM’s roomier accommodations, while shorter/smaller riders won’t mind the tighter confines of the Tuono, and will appreciate its nearly half-inch shorter seat height.

2014 Ultimate Streetfighter Finale

Six of one, half dozen of the other. Do you prefer a V-4 or a Twin? Steel trellis frame or aluminum twin spar? Orange and black or silver and red? These are the choices you’ll be grappling with choosing between these motorcycles because both are so damn awesome there’s no definitive reason why one is better than the other.

Six of one, half dozen of the other. Do you prefer a V-4 or a Twin? Steel trellis frame or aluminum twin spar? Orange and black or silver and red? These are the choices you’ll be grappling with choosing between these motorcycles because both are so damn awesome there’s no definitive reason why one is better than the other.

Ridden in a vacuum, either bike will have you convinced of it being the hooligan king of motorcycledom. It’s only when they occupy the same space that nuances come to light, such as the Tuono being the better track bike. We love, love, the RSV4’s chassis and handling characteristics, and the Tuono shares these attributes by virtue of having the same chassis. A rider can put the Tuono exactly where he wants on the racetrack, and might have a slight advantage to its racier counterpart by way of the leverage provided by its superbike handlebars. The KTM, with its 1.4-inch longer wheelbase, is a half step behind the Tuono on the track. Both Duke and I struggled keeping time with the Aprilia when aboard the KTM.

2016 Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 RR First Ride Review

“For ripping up a racetrack, the more compact Tuono has an edge over the gangly SDR,” says Duke. We also both experienced some footpeg dragging on the SDR where the Tuono had no such clearance issues.

Footpeg clearance was an issue I mentioned during the Super Duke R’s media launch at the Ascari Race Resort in late 2013. WP racing suspension and adjustable footpegs from KTM’s PowerParts catalog greatly increase cornering clearance. Photo by CaliPhotography.

Footpeg clearance was an issue I mentioned during the Super Duke R’s media launch at the Ascari Race Resort in late 2013. WP racing suspension and adjustable footpegs from KTM’s PowerParts catalog greatly increase cornering clearance. Photo by CaliPhotography.

The revvy V-4 powering the Tuono howls with ferocity around Buttonwillow Raceway, surprisingly pulling away on the Super Duke R down the front straight. Could be the quick-shifter providing the Aprilia the small advantage, but we also found the Tuono to be the six-gear roll-on winner, easily defeating the SDR from a 75-mph rolling start.

“Incredibly, the Tuono beat the monstrously powerful SDR in a top-gear roll-on contest!” exclaims Duke, continuing with, “its glorious V-4 engine feels and sounds exotic, while the KTM’s V-Twin sounds more pedestrian.”

We love V-4 engine configurations, and the Tuono cranks out more horsepower than the KTM despite a 224cc displacement disadvantage. But in terms of grunt, the Super Duke pounds out more torque at 4,100 rpm (82.2 lb.-ft.) than the V-4’s torque peak of 82.1 lb.-ft. at 9,300 rpm, there’s no contest. The SDR is a bottomless well of grunt producing more of everything, everywhere except the Aprilia’s peak hp figure.

We love V-4 engine configurations, and the Tuono cranks out more horsepower than the KTM despite a 224cc displacement disadvantage. But in terms of grunt, the Super Duke pounds out more torque at 4,100 rpm (82.2 lb.-ft.) than the V-4’s torque peak of 82.1 lb.-ft. at 9,300 rpm, there’s no contest. The SDR is a bottomless well of grunt producing more of everything, everywhere except the Aprilia’s peak hp figure.

Just because KTM isn’t greasing the palm of some government official to get decibel-busting exhaust systems on its stock motorcycles doesn’t mean it sounds pedestrian, Kevin. Some nice aftermarket cans will have the KTM booming enough to rattle windows and scare little children if one were so inclined. (But a Twin will never sound like it just came off a MotoGP circuit… —KD) The real point of interest here, however, isn’t sound but power production, which the KTM has in spades. The dyno chart above leaves nothing to the imagination; the SDR wallops the Tuono rpm for rpm.

“You have a choice of two gears for every corner,” says Duke, and that statement applies to street riding as well as on the track. “Its bulging torque curve and smoother throttle responses make it easier to carry a long wheelie than the high-strung Tuono,” adds the wheelie photo model.

The Tuono’s Öhlins suspension is superb, but the SDR’s WP components are as good, if not a tad more compliant. The Brembo M50 calipers on the KTM were preferred over the Tuono’s Brembo M432 calipers.

The Tuono’s Öhlins suspension is superb, but the SDR’s WP components are as good, if not a tad more compliant. The Brembo M50 calipers on the KTM were preferred over the Tuono’s Brembo M432 calipers.

Helping us attain handling nirvana on both bikes was Buddhahood chassis specialist, Dave Moss (FeeltheTrack.com), a trackside suspension guru with a deep well of knowledge of how to properly set up bikes for different riders. With his guidance we were able to get both machines to perform at their peak on, as well as off, the track. “The KTM steered so much better after Moss’ tuning (adding rear preload and fork damping), providing much greater confidence, and finishing off corners without running wide,” says Duke. “Moss’ setup advice made a huge difference in each bike’s performance.”

The handling advantage the Tuono possessed at Buttonwillow wasn’t as apparent in the speed-restricted environs outside the closed course, until a specifically tight stretch of twisties presented itself, playing to the Tuono’s advantage. The KTM may be a little slower to transition through the tight stuff, but the weaponized torque machine can always catch up between bends by goosing the throttle.

042216-2016-streetfighter-shootout-ktm-1290-super-duke-r_87B4207042216-2016-streetfighter-shootout-aprilia-tuono-v4-1100-factory_87B4073

The KTM’s dual LCD readouts provide more viewing area than the Aprilia’s single screen configuration. We also like the Favorites window of the SDR that allows you to customize the information within.

On the freeway, where the Aprilia V-4 is butter smooth, the KTM’s “big motor is spinning at 4500 rpm while cruising around 85 mph, which makes the V-Twin chug a bit with large-amplitude vibrations that blur the mirrors,” says Duke. “A downshift to fifth gear bumps revs to 5200 rpm and clears the mirrors.”

In the electronics department, the Aprilia holds an advantage in terms of adjustability, and maintaining a rider’s settings when the bike is switched off. The Tuono’s TC is not only nicely divorced from the chosen ride mode, but is also adjustable on-the-fly via left-side mounted thumb and index finger buttons. The KTM allows you to switch off ABS and TC, but the two technologies are unadjustable, changing as the ride modes are selected. KTM sells an electronic dongle ($110) that allows settings for TC and ABS to be saved independently.

Photo by CaliPhotography.

Photo by CaliPhotography.

Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 Factory
+ Highs

  • V-4 sound & fury
  • Quickshifter
  • Precision handling
– Sighs

  • Brembo M50s would be a nice upgrade
  • Dated instrumentation
  • Shouldn’t Aprilia Factory models have forged wheels?

This electronic customization the Aprilia offers is mostly beneficial on the track, further leading us to proclaim the KTM the more streetable of the two. The SDR has available heated handgrips ($135), not a quickshifter. For 2016, it should be noted that the Super Duke is now outfitted with Cornering-ABS and was not financially penalized for the upgrade, carrying the same retail price as the 2015 model. Kudos to KTM because the company is swallowing the cost of adding an IMU to 2016 SDRs to make C-ABS function.

Now that KTM has introduced the travel-worthy Super Duke GT, with cruise control and saddlebags (not to mention a quickshifter) it’ll be interesting to see the direction Austrian engineers take with the R model. Will its performance sharpen with future model updates? Our next shootout may find us saying that the Super Duke R is now more track worthy than the Tuono Factory. Another shootout with these bikes? Can’t wait!

042216-2016-streetfighter-shootout-ktm-1290-super-duke-r_M1D0063-cropped

KTM 1290 Super Duke R
+ Highs

  • Torque monster
  • Ample amounts of legroom
  • Cornering ABS
– Sighs

  • Add cruise control and you’ve the perfect road bike
  • A little vibey at freeway cruising speed
  • TC switches itself back on whenever the bike is switched off

As mentioned earlier, the ScoreCard – the ultimate shootout decision maker – is almost superfluous in this instance. Yes, the Super Duke R won by a margin of 0.1%, but this is as close to a tie as we’re ever gonna get. Between the two of us, Duke, being the shorter/smaller rider, chose the Aprilia, whereas I, the taller/bigger rider, chose the KTM… go figure. Ask either of us and we’ll gladly wax poetic about either bike – they’re both just that damn good.

2016 Ultimate Streetfighter Shootout Scorecard
Category Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 Factory KTM 1290 Super Duke R
Price 100% 97.7%
Weight 100% 98.9%
lb/hp 100% 97.1%
lb/lb-ft 86.4% 100%
Total Objective Scores 97.7% 98.4%
Engine 98.1% 96.9%
Transmission/Clutch 95.0% 90.0%
Handling 97.5% 91.3%
Brakes 93.8% 100%
Suspension 90.0% 93.8%
Technologies 88.8% 88.8%
Instruments 83.8% 88.8%
Ergonomics/Comfort 91.3% 95.0%
Quality, Fit & Finish 92.5% 92.5%
Cool Factor 93.8% 92.5%
Grin Factor 100% 96.3%
Tom’s Subjective Scores 93.1% 94.4%
Kevin’s Subjective Scores 94.0% 92.7%
Overall Score 94.4% 94.5%

042116-2016-ultimate-streetfighter-shootout-aprilia-tuono-v4r-ktm-super-duke-r-_87B4042

Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 Factory KTM 1290 Super Duke R
MSRP $16,999 $17,399
Horsepower 156.5 hp @ 11,300 rpm 153.7 hp @ 9,000 rpm
Torque 82.1 lb.-ft. @ 9,300 rpm 95.7 lb.-ft. @ 8,100 rpm
Engine Capacity 1077cc 1301cc
Engine Type 65° liquid-cooled DOHC V4 75° liquid-cooled, DOHC V-Twin
Bore x Stroke 81.0mm x 52.3mm 108 mm / 71 mm
Compression 13.1:1 13.2:1
Fuel System Weber-Marelli EFI with 48mm throttle bodies Keihin EFI with 56mm throttle bodies
Transmission 6-speed cassette type gearbox 6-speed
Clutch Multi-plate wet clutch with mechanical slipper system & quick-shifter Multi-plate PASC slipper clutch
Final Drive Chain Chain
Frame Aluminum dual beam Chromium-Molybdenum-Steel trellis
Front Suspension Fully adjustable inverted 43mm Öhlins fork 48mm WP fork with compression and rebound damping
Rear Suspension Fully adjustable Öhlins piggyback monoshock Fully adjustable WP monoshock
Front Brakes Brembo M432 monoblock radial calipers with 320mm discs, ABS Brembo M50 calipers with 320mm discs, ABS/C-ABS
Rear Brakes Single Brembo caliper with 220mm disc, ABS Single Brembo caliper with 240mm disc, ABS/C-ABS
Front Tire 120/70-17 120/70-17
Rear Tire 200/55-17 190/55-17
Seat Height 32.5 inches 32.9 inches
Wheelbase 57.0 inches 58.4 inches
Rake/Trail 24.7º/ 3.9 inches 24.9° / 4.2 inches
Curb Weight (fully fueled) 465 pounds 470 pounds
Fuel Capacity 4.9 gal. 5.1 gal.
MPG 35.4 mpg 38.4 mpg
Electronics Aprilia Performance Ride Control (APRC) by Bosch Bosch 9M+ ride mode technology and multi-stage, lean angle sensitive traction control
Colors Superpole Grey, Black
Warranty 2-year unlimited miles, 1 year of roadside assistance 2-year unlimited miles

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  • schizuki

    For the love of God, Aprilia, please discover monochromatic paint. A nice Italian red, perhaps.

    And I don’t need bikes to SHOUT THEIR NAMES AT ME.

    • john burns

      you know what they say, If it’s too loud, then you’re too…

      • schizuki

        …endowed.

    • Mahatma

      If you like monochromatic paint,what’s wrong with ducati?

      • spiff

        They don’t make a Tuono. :)

        • http://www.motorcycle.com/ Sean Alexander

          I’d give this 14x up-votes if I could.

        • Mahatma

          Then what’s wrong with sending some buisness the painters way?;)

    • Steve Cole

      They were doing that. I have to tell you – in all honesty – my RF brings the average working man to it like crack to an addict. I was surprised myself – I preferred the understated look of my 2013 Factory… but the 2016 brings the power and sophistication that Aprilia’s engineers are capable of.

    • toomanycrayons

      I love FONTS, so make mine APRILIA. The fact that I’m an ARIES helps, too. The ktm looks like something dreamed up by the weekend cleaning staff at kubota…

  • Ser Samsquamsh

    if this comparison is getting hung up on trivia like adjustablility of a lever you clearly need more demanding criteria. Just how many city busses can each bike jump? What speed is required to extinguish a 8ft flaming hoop? At 150mph which punched a cleaner hole in a moose? These are the things we need to know.

    • mog

      And that “need to know” data could be easily surpassed on PRICE, HP, TORQUE & WEIGHT by the new EBR 1190SX. Maybe a 180mph, 20 bus jump through 6ft flaming hoop into a moose. Might want to look up the specs on the EBR site.

      • Ser Samsquamsh

        Nice specs! Seems you can’t actually buy one though. Slight problem.

  • spiff

    Oh f#@k, i really want a Superduke.

  • JMDonald

    Cast wheels and vibey freeways speeds are small weights to bear. The less than M50 Brembos and the burden of Traction Control resetting would try certain riders souls. The lack of cruise control and dated instrumentation border on blasphemy. If this is all that can be found lacking I am reminded again that we live in the best of times. If one is unable to decide between these great machines logic dictates the purchase of both.

    • Steve Cole

      The calipers are not an issue. It’s the fact that the Tuono uses a standard old-school master. If you wanted a RSV4 / S1000RR / 1290R feel to the lever – aka racing feel – then replace the master with a 18:1 ratio Brembo. Solved.

    • john phyyt

      Yes yes yes. But sir , I really can barely afford ONE.

      • John Docksey

        Barely still means you can afford it!

        • toomanycrayons

          He can’t barely “afford” to be wrong? Some guys would rather stay home than leave the dance with the wrong girl. It’s a thing.

  • Old MOron

    How telling, that you can’t wait for the next shootout.
    Unfortunately I couldn’t get the video to play. The insurance ad came through loud and clear. I watched that thing twice. LOL mission accomplished in terms of site revenue, anyway.

  • Old MOron

    Okay, I watched the vid. Your enthusiasm for the bikes is contagious. I need a new bike.

  • DickRuble

    The only clear conclusion of this (flawed) analysis is that two riders had different preferences. It would have been more conclusive if one of the bikes had garnered unanimity. A tie breaker is needed.

    • spiff

      You don’t happen to weigh in at 86 kilos and measure in at 1.9 meters do you?

    • Buzz

      Sean is the right height but you’d need to cut him in half to get to 190.

  • spiff

    Ooh ooh, Mr Kotter. I have a question. Does the Dukes cornering abs consider a dirty road or sudden oil slick? I read somewhere that the abs didn’t account for rain unless it was in rain mode.

    • Kevin Duke

      That’s like saying regular ABS doesn’t work in the rain unless it is in rain mode. Cornering ABS considers the amount of traction based on wheel slip, and that’s true in the dry or in the rain. Stay tuned to MO for full-front-wheel-lockup testing of Cornering ABS in the next couple of weeks. SkidBike technology kept us safe from broken collarbones.

      • spiff

        I was wondering if this were true what the point of the abs was. Maybe in rain mode it considers the front washing out independent of wheel speed? I’m grabbing at straws at this point. I look forward to the test.

      • Steve Cole

        I look forward to it. I have been very circumspect in my evaluation of “cornering abs” as it doesn’t seem to make much sense to me in terms of differential to regular systems. Prove me wrong, and I won’t be unhappy about it, however. I’m a believer in technology that works for sure, having plenty of patches and scars on my riding gear as it is. lol

  • John B.

    You have done a great job evaluating the super naked class and have given us the information needed to make an intelligent selection for ourselves.

    Now, it’s time for a Great Plains Shootout to determine which bike provides the best value for people who live in pancakeville. If a person rides only on the street in a place with no hills and few curves which naked bike provides the best value? Perhaps, the differences within the super naked class matter less for riders in flat country.

    • Old MOron

      Long, straight roads? Presumably with little traffic? That’s an easy one: get the bike that does the best wheelies.

      • John B.

        And duel compound tires!

        • DickRuble

          Or maybe dual compound..

          • John B.

            Probably. Dyslexia. It’s a decoding thing. Spell check only gets me so far.

  • Douglas

    JB, if you live in flat country (i.e. Great Plains), a great test would be riding relatively fast over about a mile of freshly plowed field, and see who’s hasn’t tipped over.

  • craig collins

    Great shootout! Question for Kevin – what are the sunglasses you’re wearing in the vid?

    • Kevin Duke

      A pair of Paul Frank sunnies.

      • craig collins

        thanx! you da’ man!

  • http://www.motou.info Gabe Ets-Hokin

    Kevvie and Tommy, is the Tuono improved in the range department? The last one I tested would only go 80-90 miles before the fuel light came on.

    • Steve Cole

      … 80-90? Maybe before the fuel light, if you were pushing race speeds. But anyway, my RSV4 RF is going 130 miles before the light at an average of about 65mph (lots of 75mph in there). So figure 150-160 miles to the bottom of the tank, maybe a bit more. This isn’t an issue for me. Compared to my 2007 Tuono, it practically sips fuel.

      • http://www.motou.info Gabe Ets-Hokin

        I think we have different riding styles!

        • Steve Cole

          Maybe … but that’s the kind of milage I got at the track, not on the street… lol

    • Kevin Duke

      Yep, the bike’s tank was enlarged a few years ago, now up to a claimed 4.9 galllons even tho we found it only holds 4.7. So, count on at least 140 miles before running dry.

  • TheMarvelous1310

    But are those better for 17 grand than THIS for 12?

    • spiff

      Local dealer has them for 12 out the door, including tax.

      • TheMarvelous1310

        Buy me one? Pay you back… Eventually…

        • spiff

          That’s a real nice offer. I’ll get back to you.

    • Steve Cole

      Yes. But maybe not the severely discounted rate that EBR is currently offering.

      • TheMarvelous1310

        So… No?

        • Steve Cole

          You have to consider whether the company will be there to back you up, though. Aprilia just had a huge increase in sales this year (56% RSV4 uptake, 74% Tuono uptake) and is even racing MotoGP. Which is gonna be there for you…

          • mog

            Oh yes I forgot that there is a local Aprilia and KTM dealer in Everytown, USA.

            Erik Buell builds longevity into every EBR 1190SX, so maybe talk to the owners of EBRs and you might just come away with a different opinion.

            418 pounds, 185hp, 101 ft lb & corners like a fly rimming a sugar bowl, at a better price.

          • Kevin Duke

            156 horses at the wheel and 449 lbs curb weight measured on our scales.

          • DickRuble

            Good enough, if you’re comfortable on it.

          • mog

            Front brake? Just one finger on it and you are a high side. Niccolo Canepa compared (used both on this bike) twin rotors and the EBR ZTL and with the ZTL on a stock 1190RX broke Collin Edwards record at Jennings track. This is a small track, for motorcycles only and it is impossible to break a record here with sub-par brakes, period.

            Watch the video and see the difference in entering the turns, lean angle and exit speed. He is in 6th gear between turn 2 and 3 and sets the record in the last few minutes of the video TWICE!

          • DickRuble

            One finger resulting in a high side, to me, says not so great brakes. Not only to me, to the team that was racing them in Italy too, and those guys complained and complained, and complained about the f**$%$ front brake. The last part of their last competitive season they switched to dual front brakes, before EBR declared bankruptcy. That should tell you something. Now, would I consider $12K with that perimeter brake vs $17K with brembos? Sure, all other things being equal. But they ain’t equal.

          • mog

            The race pit crew that was ‘contracted’ from Italy had no appreciation of the bike, engine and brakes and was let go after not paying attention to engine specifications resulting in blown engines.

            Both types of front brake were used with cornering success but the bike was under the 200+ hp needed to get the top speeds in WSB.

            Looking back at 2014 WSB entrants I did not see any KTM listed, although about 3 Aprilia RSV4 1000 Factory were there.
            Erik had 2 EBR 1190’s. Crazy or not that’s guts.

          • RSH

            You are embellishing a bit.
            The bike was not a stock 1190RX. It was one of Larry Pegram’s EBR superbike’s with WSBK spec suspension. Also it was Ben Bostrom’s track record not Collin Edwards.

          • mog

            Thank you for the due diligence, it is most impressive though.

          • RSH

            In a nutshell, you said Niccolo broke the Jennings track record on a stock ZTL equipped 1190RX, I pointed out that is not the case, Niccolo was ridding a full race bike. The race bike ZTL is also more refined than what’s on the stock bikes..

            Quote “Niccolo Canepa compared (used both on this bike) twin rotors and the EBR ZTL and with the ZTL on a stock 1190RX broke Collin Edwards record at Jennings track.”

          • mog

            Parse the facts that an EBR 1190 ZTL brake was used to break a record on a track that needs a high level of brake capability any way you desire. The fact still remains that the task was accomplished with a single rotor brake on a light weight front wheel and turned out superior to anything used to that date. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q40PrakrvFQ

          • nicklove

            Nothing wrong with the ebr’s brake. Fantastic, progressive feel, no need for abs for an average Joe. Enough brake for endos if wanted.
            The M50, great racers brake, great for one finger trail braking, initial bite may be a little overwhelming for average Joe, hence the need for abs. Ask any of the boys if they think ebrs brakes are shit. The problem with these shootouts is that many readers think the bike that didn’t win, isn’t worth having. With respect and without insult mate, you really need to go ride some of these bikes and see for yourself the differences they have. And you’ll have some fun doing it too. cheers nick.

          • DickRuble

            All reviews point out two things: 1) The relative lack of modulation of EBR’s brakes and 2) their inferiority with regard to Brembo’s M50 and the like. So, without insult, if I have to trust someone, because test rides aren’t as easy to find and as opinions, I’ll have to go with the journals and established racers before I trust some random guy on a discussion board, just because he says so. I like an underdog as much as the next guy but…

          • mog

            Gee, so nick is a random guy just asking you to ride an EBR?
            You may want to play the video of your two favorite and trusted reviewers again between 5:25 and 5:58 after admitting not setting the TC above 3 (out of 21) said they did not have the talent (their words) to use the EBRs potential….. that includes the brake sir.

          • DickRuble

            Don’t know.. who is nick? Enlighten me.. His profile is private and he has a grand 6 comments on Discuss. This makes me think he might be just trolling on behalf of someone. Just like the Motus trolls a few months ago.

          • nicklove

            Hi again Dick, just saw this now, Im on private Dick as I’m no internet wizard and for safeguarding my family with privacy, I thought it safer to stay on private. My lack of discussions Dick is a fairly busy lifestyle and really only joined this and contributed after being introduced to it by reading one of John’s reviews. The main reason for my posting was due to all the negativety out there, it just wasn’t the same as my own personel experiences with the bike and I think thats a shame for the American company ebr moving forward. I came across the ebr by accident, i’d never knew they existed here in oz, I thought the last bike was the buel. So much for their poor marketing. Anyway, after riding the 1190sx, it was a bike that really moved me, I could get satisfaction out of it even at low speeds, it suited me, had the old school throttle feeling where your connected to the wheel. I loved the sdr too but the ride by wire felt delayed for me and didn’t have the same feeling. Just passionate about bikes Dick, and it doesn;t matter how many posts or whether i’m private, its just my view that I’m expressing and hopefully helps someone. cheers mate.

          • DickRuble

            Ok. thanks for the clarification! I hope you enjoy the SX. mog seems to say the 2016 is better than the 2014. Not sure what he bases that on. Hope he’s right and I would’ve not complained at all had MO included it in the comparison. All the best!

          • nicklove

            Its all good Dick, I have spent three days on the 1190sx and two days on the rx, but I do not own my own yet. I need to know that I won’t be left parked in the garage without parts. That’s the downside for me mate. I found a ride I’m happy with but still too risky for me. It would be great for the crew to see Erik and get a long term bike, share their views and maybe help with what they thought was sub-par and also help out marketing. It would be great to save the brand. Cheers mate and the best to you too, safe riding.

          • http://about.me/PaulMEdwards Paul M Edwards

            EBR is stuck in quite a paradox… Many people love the bikes and want to buy one, but fears about long-term support erode confidence in the brand which means less people buy them and their future is uncertain.

          • nicklove

            I definitely agree with that Paul. It took me a while to get comfortable enough to purchase the sx. I have no regrets now. Basically, I treated the situation as though EBR will close down rather than they may close down. From there it was a little easier, a little time spent on researching engine parts, what to do in the case of certain parts becoming unavailable and how to get around those problems. In my case, I was comfortable enough to go ahead, the extra savings on the discounted purchase price was also a good security for any future issues that may arise. Everyone is different though, so definitely there will be people who just won’t be able to cross that line.
            The bike needs the race ecm and secondary muffler removed to improve fuelling and make it friendlier at low speed city riding. This is a must in my opinion and a couple of teeth on the rear sprocket to perfect it even more. 300-500 for the race ecm and exhaust tips and 150-250 for the chain and sprocket. There are de-catted exhaust systems also available, but not really essential for the street or trackdays but they are there if so desired. There are competition race brake pads available as well if needed, but the stock brakes are great for the street and fun/amateur trackdays.

          • nicklove

            I appreciate the reply Dick, one of my underlying points is that when watching these reviews, the degree of inferiority or how badly this ‘lack of modulation’ really is, you can’t help but leaving with i suppose a negative vibe, when in reality the brakes really are great brakes. It would be great to have one of the crew chime in here to explain how they are being pretty critical in their comparo’s. I have brembos on my own machine and I like them at the track, however whilst riding on the street, I have guys in the group that are a little intimidated by the initial bite, as they are quite abrupt and can catch you out on that sunny sunday cruise if your not ready for it. Its a great thing to have this discussion thread, as you can hear from others and you can generally filter out those who are nonsense and also those that might make you think the degree of how poorly a particular product might ‘really’ be in the real world with real everyday bikers. At Phillip Island GP Circuit down here there is a chap in veterans class running an ebr 1190rx, totally stock, same brakes as the sx and he is looping the circuit 2 seconds slower than the slightly modded aust superbike series. Pretty good for a stock bike.

            Just an example of Journo’s sometimes unintended negativety, in the review with Troy and John, John mentions vibes in the ebr, but no mention of any vibes in the sdr full stop. Yet, in the comparo with Kev and Tom, there is mention of the sdr’s vibes opposed to no vibes in the Tuono. So really, ,how much bearing is there in the vibes and the brakes,etc etc. For me Dick, the reviews are great however I don’t hold every word as gospel, until I have ridden the bike myself to see whether it was something seriously deficient or whether it was something that didn’t suit the tester. sorry for the long read mate, just wanted you to see there was some substance in my comment. cheers.

          • Kevin Duke

            Referring to brake performance simply by the brand of caliper is false logic. So much is dependent on which caliper from the brand and its mounting method, the size and material of the rotor, the type of master cylinder, the brake lines, perhaps most importantly, the pad. Have you tried the M50s on the SDR?

            Also, vibration is not either there or not. The EBR vibrates more than the KTM, and the KTM vibrates more and with larger amplitude than the Tuono. You make it sound like we’re telling lies.

          • nicklove

            If you can find the time to read the entire conversation I had with Dick in a positive state of mind, you will see my views as positive ones, I’m sure.

          • mog

            Really? A 2016 EBR 1190SX?… maybe a 2014 EBR 1190RX in bad tune, but a 2016 EBR 1190SX?

            Kevin, I have followed you for years and do not doubt your measurements but I have an issue with exactly what was measured and the state of its preparation. 449 beats 465 and 470 in weight any day. And the EBR 1190SX weighs less than the RX.

            SO, put a 2016 EBR 1190SX against what you got on this report and let the chips fall where they be.

            The EBR is astounding, especially for the price. IMHO

          • Kevin Duke

            It’s all right here, including weighing on our own scales (full of fuel and ready to ride) and dyno testing on our regular Dynojet 250i rear-wheel dyno (not an-impossible-to-verify crankshaft dyno like OEMs use: http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/brutish-v-twin-streetfighter-comparo-part-3-2014-ebr-1190sx-vs-2014-ktm-1290-super-duke-r-video

          • mog

            Thanks Kevin for the re-introduction to the video.
            The writers were very good at their video work and made a few points very clear back in 2014. The new 2016 model of the EBR 1190SX might just surprise some skeptics positively.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOSQeXSXgDs

            1. Lower price for the 1190SX than the KTM
            2. More power with less cc for the 1190SX
            3. Quicker better handling for the 1190SX.
            4. Lighter weight for the 1190SX

            Most interesting, the writers had the EBR 1190SX Traction Control set on only 2 or 3 out of 21 ??? And even with that, they said the bike had capabilities way above their talent levels. At video time 5:25 to 5:58 they admitted that the EBR had capabilities above their talent levels and if set higher could probably turn out a better set of data at higher confidence level……. if they had turned it up.

          • John Docksey

            That weight difference probably comes from the burden one must shoulder when EBR folds again. I wish them the best of luck, but I can’t imagine buying a premium bike only to find the factory has stopped production just in time for a warranty service.

          • Steve Cole

            After watching Buell die twice, then EBR already once, I don’t share your enthusiasm. I am sure that I would love the SX if I owned one – and who knows some day I even might as I have kept my v-twin Tuono for its 9th season with me as I love big twin engines in a naked chassis and don’t feel the need for a second V4 (or yet another i4).

          • mog

            That is great and I am happy that you feel that way. You have a great motorcycle, period.

            If available, would you want to test ride an EBR 2016 SX? And if it was better by a decent margin for you, would you consider buying an EBR 1190SX? That is the question I want to put in folk’s mind, that’s all.

          • Steve Cole

            Again I would have to consider the company backing it with support but yes of course i would consider one. I considered the KTM and still do, though I find it pricey for its skillset, at least it is here in Canada.

          • DickRuble

            Yes, I would like to test ride it. And if I liked it, 12K would probably be good price, depending on HOW MUCH I liked it. 60% of people would tell you the same thing. The other 40% would say no because they fear EBR may not be a going concern for long. They may also fear that fit and finish from the factory isn’t what it should be (e.g. front disc having to be replaced immediately because of manufacturing issues at supplier??). Hopefully, this puts some of your anxieties to rest.

          • TheMarvelous1310

            You can always take it to Ronin for work!

  • spiff

    Oh Mr Kotter, I mean Tom, one more question. Tell more about two up. Could you do a day trip, maybe 400 miles?

    • http://motorcycle.com/ Tom Roderick

      Anything is possible. A 400-mile day could be taxing for an SDR passenger’s derrière. Really depends on your passenger. For us, that’s a trip to San Francisco. I don’t think I’d ask the wife to sit on an SDR’s passenger seat for that amount of time and expect her to be happy about it at day’s end.

  • Tom Murray

    Hey guys,
    Any chance of getting the settings that were dialled in by Dave Moss??

    • Kevin Duke

      For which bike? For street or track?

      • Tom Murray

        Hey Kevin,
        For the Duke mate. Street settings if they’re available. I’m about 90kgs or so, but keen to see what Mr. Moss had rebound and compression at.

        • Kevin Duke

          Front comp: 16 out; rebounds 14
          Shock low-speed comp: 12 out; high-speed 2.5 turns out; rebound 11 out.
          Rear preload had 11 threads showing (which was a bit much for me but might be good for your weight). Hope that helps!

          • Tom Murray

            Awesome, thanks mate!
            Keep up the good work, really looking forward to the ABS test.

  • Y.A.

    I need a Tuono V4R in my life. Hell, any naked V4 or crossplane I4 under 450lbs and over 100HP will do.

    • Bruce Steever

      Would 463 lbs still work for you?

  • Jaime Berrones

    beware of this two manufacturers, they are doing their homework in what is to me the perfect do it all road motorcycles, KTM allready has the the superduke GT i expect something estellar from APRILIA .

    • Steve Cole

      I really wish they’d find a way to use the V4 in a Caponord. Or make a GT style bike, although they did make the Tuono a fair bit more comfortable than the old one, from all reports.

      • DickRuble

        Caponord’s problem isn’t the engine. It’s the handling and its porkiness.

  • mikey

    KTM are saying SDR does not have cornering ABS, and that there was no change for 2016. Can you confirm who is correct?

    • http://motorcycle.com/ Tom Roderick

      Directly from our media contact at KTM: “…2016 is the same except the cornering ABS…” Cornering ABS is part of KTM’s “Stability Control” system, so it may not be evident wherever you’re looking.

  • Shlomi

    With all my 30 years riding experience, and I still afraid of buying either bike, I had the V2 Tuono and it was a beast, the V4 has + 40 hp, ho my.

    • Cosmin Stanescu

      I own a 2016 superduke and you dont have to worry, its very easy to ride, i feel safer on it than my previous yamaha mt-07, its comfortable and the engine is butter smooth gorgeousness which has LOADS of torque which is very controllable thanks to the excellent electronics.

  • DeadArmadillo

    Oh, yea, I am so impressed. Two non entities competing for the attention of two non writers. Did they make your tentacles hurt?

    • DickRuble

      Does your Alzheimer’s hurt ?

  • Ian Parkes

    I’m sorry to say my inner grumpy old man has pushed through with a plea to ease up on the acronyms. It’s bad enough having ABS, TC, and and any number of manufacturer-generated acronyms to make any tweak sound exclusive (can’t you preserve us from those feeble and pointless things? Just tell us what they do), but when we start abbreviating the names of bikes it just gets too much.

    Two instances. What manner of widget is an SDR I wondered? The damn thing has actually got a name – Super Duke – that’s pretty easy to say (and type) and it’s much more evocative than this pointless dry acronym. Same thing happened when I was trying to work out what AT was – “All Terrain”? “Adventure Torque”? in a review of the Africa Twin. Oh.

    And is it really so hard to write out traction control? I remember when I was getting back into bikes I turned to the bike press to catch up and found the sheer number of unexplained acronyms annoying and off-putting. In my day, jargon busting was a core requirement of journalists. Sure, shorten names if you will but please, if something’s got a decent name, why not use it. Did I see someone in comments refer to a TF? I’ve just got it: A Tuono Factory! Why would you want to make someone work that hard? Arsehole. Okay I’ll have to make an exception for KTM, BMW, CCM, CZ but they have basically become words – you don’t have to do a mental select-edit-replace to get the meaning.

    “Kudos to KTM because the company is swallowing the cost of adding an IMU to 2016 SDRs to make C-ABS function.” Euuch. I just can’t be arsed working out what an IMU is – and good grief: C-ABS? Really?

    Okay. I feel better now. Where’s me pills.

  • yamalink

    Regarding “Tuono to be the six-gear roll-on winner, easily defeating the SDR from a 75-mph rolling start” the 1290 comes with a ridiculously tall 6th gear and is loping along at about 3000rpm, vibrating my feet tingly. Rolling my 1290 on at that speed in that gear is like flooring a Toyota Tercel with parking brake on. It just ain’t happening! Swapping out the countershaft is priority #1 and then getting rid of the midpipe for a few less pounds and muuuuch better sound. I believe Tuono geared the 2016 down 1 tooth in front which obviously helps that 6th gear roll on prowess.
    I’m only 5’10” but the KTM position fits me so much better for street use than the Tuono, but as stated, for track use the Aprilia has a perfect stance. Both great bikes, I went KTM because the nearest Ape dealer is 6 hours away and I have two KTM dealers within 15 minutes.

    As for the cornering ABS, well, still haven’t found it…

  • Milcher

    Kevin, would you mind posting up the street suspension settings you settled on for the Tuono? I’d like to compare them to mine.

    • Kevin Duke

      The street settings were 12 turns out for front compression and rebound. Rear compression at 14, rebound at 16.