Last year, we published an April Fools post about a new Harley-Davidson engine called the “Milwaukee-Eight.” The post was total BS, of course, except for the name; Harley-Davidson does, in fact, own the trademark for that Milwaukee-Eight. (UPDATE: Harley-Davidson has now officially announced the Milwaukee-Eight engine.)

Thanks to new 2017 motorcycle certification data released by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, we now have details about Harley’s newest engine which will replace the Twin Cam engine.

According to the EPA’s data, Harley-Davidson will introduce a new 1746cc (107ci) engine with a larger 1868cc (114ci) engine for CVO models. The new engine will be used on the: CVO Street Glide, CVO Ultra Limited, Electra Glide Ultra Limited Low, Road Glide Ultra, Ultra Limited, Ultra Limited Shrine Edition and the Tri Glide Ultra and Free Wheeler trikes.

081716-2016-harley-davidson-cvo-street-glide

Custom Vehicle Operations versions like the CVO Street Glide will likely get the 114ci engine while regular models (like the Road Glide Ultra pictured top) will get the 107ci version.

The EPA data has the 1746cc engine producing 92.5 hp at 5000 rpm, compared to the previous 1688cc Twin Cam’s EPA-rated 80.5 hp at 4000 rpm. Meanwhile the CVO models’ 1868cc engine is EPA-rated at 100.6 hp at 5000 rpm, a significant increase over the current 1802cc engine’s 87.2 hp at 4000 rpm.

Early speculation about the “Milwaukee-Eight” name assumed the number refers to the number of valves (as in four per cylinder). The EPA data however rubbishes this theory, confirming that the new engines will continue to use two valves per cylinder. (UPDATE: with the official announcement, Harley-Davidson confirms the engine uses four valves per cylinder, contradicting the information in the EPA’s certification documents. We’re going to take the manufacturer’s word on this one over the government agency and assume the EPA’s info is either outdated or an error.)

Assuming the EPA data is correct, we have a different theory for the name. Tracing Harley-Davidson’s big twin engine history back to the 1914 F-Head, the Milwaukee Eight will be the eighth in the succession:

  1. F-Head (1914-1929)
  2. Flathead (1930-1948)
  3. Knucklehead (1936-1947)
  4. Panhead (1948-1965)
  5. Shovelhead (1966-1984)
  6. Evolution (1984-1999)
  7. Twin Cam (1999-2016)
  8. Milwaukee Eight (2017 onwards)

Harley-Davidson typically reveals its model updates in late August so we expect to hear official announcement in the next few weeks. Check back here at Motorcycle.com for the latest as it emerges.

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  • ADB

    Wow. Cool.

  • Buzz

    I wonder if the 8 is only used in the touring bikes because it’s partially liquid cooled and needs the fairing lowers for the radiators.

    • Auphliam

      Not sure about the liquid cooling part, but as far as I know, the Freewheeler doesn’t have lowers.

      • Hot Stuff

        They may add them for this application. Note the CVO Steet Glide pictured above has lowers, which usually isn’t a thing on the Street Glide

        • Douglas

          If cooling elements are in the lowers, do they still have the little storage pockets? Haven’t looked at a water-cooled model closely .

          • Buzz

            Yes but they’re full of water. Don’t put your phone in there.

          • Douglas

            Well the lil’ compartments in my FLHTCI had water in them every time we had a good rain, so nothing’s changed, then? What’s hard to grasp is why the H-D minions are so afraid of water cooling? It works well on Goldwings, Vulcans, BMW’s and the like….and the motors last longer. That’s a plus, no?

          • Buzz

            I don’t think the minions are afraid. The new water-cooled geezer glides sell like hotcakes. The V Rod has been water-cooled for more than 15 years.

  • Bmwclay

    Hey, if it’s faster, handles and brakes better than my K1200S, I’m buying one. Just saying.

    • Kenneth

      Conversely, I’m pretty certain that no one with the resources and interest in one of these bikes would be longing for a K1200S. ‘Just saying.

  • Starmag

    Twin cam referred to how many times they had to be replaced, so maybe Milwaukee Eight is the number of times…..

    • slowtire

      Grow up.

      • Starmag

        If “growing up” means being so thin skinned I can’t take a little mild teasing about the fact that Twin Cams suffered from cam bearing failures, then no thanks.

        • USS Dewey

          Jealousy is a funny thing my friend…

        • John A. Stockman

          I know a few friends who also had cam bearing failures on their FL-chassis bikes. The problem was already known, and when they contacted their Tacoma, WA dealer, they were told nothing would be done (replace the known defective parts) unless it actually happened because some bikes weren’t affected. While on tour in the midwest, one guy was stranded because of it and the other guy’s bike had the same failure 6 months later. The MoCo refused to repair the bikes, even though they were still under warranty. The letters they got said that the riders were negligent, even though they had service records from the selling dealer. Great customer service there. Disgusted at how they were treated, they bought, egregious as it sounds, Kawasaki Nomads. Which they both are still riding…they visited me in Olympia, WA earlier this summer on their Olympic Peninsula loop ride and down the Oregon/California coast. We had a good laugh, as it always comes up, but not so funny when they were being treated poorly.

          • Starmag

            Thanks for some reality John.

            I was born 5 mi. from the original Juneau Ave plant in Milwaukee, lived 8 blocks from it at one point, had a father who bought a new FL every other year for a long time, and I toured the new museum ASAP when it opened. If anyone has a right to kid “The Motor Company”, it’s me. I’d love to give them my money, but I have a beautiful used ’04 ZRX1200 with 122HP and 10k mi. that I paid $3500 for and Harley just can’t compete in any way with that.

          • Buzz

            Can any MoCo compete with a used bike?

          • Starmag

            Well for me, on a budget, and keeping in mind I like sporty standards, the used Harley of choice would be a Street Rod or a XR1200. the SR has near the same power as my ZRX but weighs 100!lbs more wet and has cornering clearance issues at least on the exhaust side. The XR has 80HP and weighs 20lbs more wet. A nice used one of either with low miles like my ZRX is about DOUBLE the $3500 I paid. So, in context no, Harley can’t compete with that. This is without mentioning that both Harleys have joke passenger accommodations even compared to a ZRX and my wife likes to come with at times. Also the XR has non metal gas tank which likes to expand. Can any MoCo compete? Sure, Suzuki Bandit 1200 for one.

          • Starmag

            Also, because of the attitude of The Faithful, which after experiencing it for some time, I believe is something like” I’ve bought the Rolls Royce of motorcycles, I don’t need to consider or be intrigued by anything else”, Harley and their dealers get away with some unbelievable arrogances as you describe.

          • slowtire

            Again, grow up. You’re talking out your ass.

          • therr850

            Been there. He ain’t lyin’.

          • TheMarvelous1310

            Somebody works at a Harley dealership.

          • slowtire

            Hardly. Just tired of the uninformed making untrue, blanket statements. And that includes asinine statements about any manufacturer.

          • lcicenine

            H-D treated me like crap after an accident and it took them 100-days to repair my bike. It took them over a month just to get an estimate to my insurance co. I knew about the twin cam defect so I bought a Kawasaki Concours with a Ninja ZX14 engine that has 150-hp and will blow away any Harley on the road. Let the good times roll.

          • Steve T

            And every day of those 100 I was out riding my 89 Yamaha Vmax. Faster, better looking,and not having embarrassing performance. Yuk and NO!

          • lcicenine

            I bought a first year V-max in 1985. I loved that bike and as every bike I wish I still had it. I’ve been thinking about buying another one maybe the 2005 20-year anniversary model. Sorry but the new style V-Max models are focking ugly. I still have my 2012 V-Rod Muscle and the Kaw C14. I would have 10 bikes if I had the space and could afford the insurance.

        • slowtire

          You imply that all TC’s had problems. Hardly. Like I said, grow up.

          • Starmag

            Stunning rebuttals. Ouch.

          • True American

            I am sick and tired of jap riders with their horsepower speed crap! I have had 4 friends die hot rodding their rockets. We don’t care what you ride, ride safely, follow the law, and stop showcasing your bike and creating danger for other bikers and cagers on the road!! If you have a family you obviously don’t care about them if you risk your life showing off.

          • Starmag

            My ZRX came from the factory with 122HP. It is bone stock with no mods. I don’t do wheelies and haven’t had a speeding ticket in 20+ years. Next.

          • lcicenine

            I live in Illinois and the biggest safety issue I see is that 90% of the Hardley riders are “too cool” to wear helmets. You don’t need to be traveling very fast to be either severely injured or killed when your head hits the pavement or curb.

          • Michael Chero

            Ah, but Harleys don’t go fast enough to need helmets……….Kind of like bicycles. Unless you’re Lance Armstrong you really don’t go fast enough to need one.

          • slowtire

            Stunning and true.

          • slowtire

            Stunning and true.

          • lcicenine

            At least the new engines won’t have the TC cam chain tensioner defect. Good luck getting someone to buy a H-D with the POS TC engine.

          • slowtire

            Lol! You don’t have a clue! They’ve only sold hundreds of thousands, if not millions of them since they introduced the TC.

          • lcicenine

            I think you’re a little slow tired. I don’t care how many they sold, they will all need to have the cam chain tensioners replaced eventually. That’s a good income stream for the stealers..lol😜🖕

          • slowtire

            Eventually doesn’t mean at 25,000 miles! You have to replace a lot of things on a lot of bikes “eventually.”

          • Matt

            How do you know that for sure? The tear down reveals that it still uses a cam chain and tensioner.

          • lcicenine

            I work for an H-D supplier and one of the engineers working here said it’s a single gear driven cam. I guess we’ll have to wait until H-D reveals more details to be sure.

          • lcicenine

            If you’re riding any H-D model that has the TC engine with over 25,000-miles, then have the cam chain tensioners inspected. They are made from a nylon/plastic material that deteriorates over time. Just search the web and you’ll find hundreds of horror stories of expensive repairs and blown engines. H-D will not cover it even if your bike is still under warranty. Figure around $700.00 to have them replaced but that’s cheaper than a new engine. Hopefully the new Chicago Seven engine will finally have this defect eliminated. As an alternative you can buy either a Sportster with an Evolution engine or a V-Rod with a Revolution engine neither of which has cam chain tensioners.

  • Mike Simmons

    The MoCo is just now cracking 100HP? And, it is taking them over 1800cc’s to do so?

    • HeDidn’tWeDid

      Bigger pistons also mean bigger torques. I’m glad they are modernizing their motors. It is just a shame you have to spend pretty pennies on the CVO to get that big motor though.

      • Luigi Stugatz

        HD has been screwing it’s owners by selling them kits to modify their engines to get performance that should have came with the bike to begin with.

        • Jim Young

          Yeah, and that little scheme cost them a $12 million fine from the EPA. Plus they have to recall all the unsold kits. Oopsie.

    • Buzz

      The Gold Wing is a whopping 1800cc and makes about a whopping 105.

      • mikeinkamloops

        And weighs so much you need a reverse gear!

      • Mike Simmons

        Yes, but Honda doesn’t market the GW as a “performance” bike. The GW engine is actually detuned for docile behavior. One can only extract so much power from ancient technology. But if the masses insist on paying big money for the “image” whom I to argue?

        • Buzz

          H-D is marketing these as performance bikes?

      • pellets

        GoldWing 1832 Cc, Power118 hp (88 kW) @ 5500 rpm
        .Try again, and make it right…
        I own 2 x Goldwings myselfe.

        • Buzz

          The Dyno says 96. You’re dreaming if you think a Wing makes 118hp at the rear wheel.

    • RoyShastid

      If I had to explain, you…oh never mind.

  • Randy Pancetalk

    a milwaukee-8 stage III kit was listed on HD’s accessories page, then it got pulled. Count the valve springs. 8. Maybe the epa docs had a typo?

    http://i.imgur.com/SMNUS8C.jpg

    • Starmag

      Great sleuthing Randy.

  • Douglas

    I thought the Evo’s were still made for the XL’s……

    • denchung

      Yes. This list refers only go the names for the big twin engines.

      • Douglas

        Well, IIRC, the Evo was in all H-D’s prior to ’99…..

  • Gary Latessa

    I can’t see Harley doing an eight valve. It’s way too far from the base.

    • Randy Pancetalk

      Harley’s base is eating apple sauce in nursing homes now.

      • frankfan42

        But are they wearing HD logo diapers with faux leather covers?

    • therr850

      So is liquid cooling but it is selling.

      • MikeD

        ROTFLMAO.

  • SRMark

    Going all the way back to the 8 valve boardtrackers. Funny how folks can’t see Harley taking that leap forward when it would be a leap backward about 100 years.

    • MikeD

      Photos or it never happened.

  • https://ffrf.org/ QuestionMark

    If you’re interested in technology, you’re not shopping at the Harley dealer. If you need a mid-life crisis identity crutch then a CVO Electra Glide Ultra Limited Low is your first choice.

  • lcicenine

    Sounds like the Chicago Seven. Maybe Abbie Hoffman will write a book about it titled “Steal This Bike”.

  • GD

    The EPA docs also show that the V-Rods have 2-valve heads, and have for the last several years, which is false. Clearly, the accuracy of this column is not of the highest importance for the EPA.

  • mikeinkamloops

    In the past few months, I’ve test driven quite a few bikes. Here’s my findings:
    Moto Guzzi California: nice handling, uncomfortable seat for tall guys, and too much heat from the cylinder heads.
    Yamaha FJR: awesome fast, great handling, terrible seat, way too much heat on the legs. Buzzy too.
    Honda ST1300: heavier and more comfortable than the FJR, but spillway too much heat on my legs. Great windscreen though.
    Indian Chieftain: nice power, good handling (rock solid), heavy, lot of heat on the right leg only. Great windscreen.
    Ducati Diavel: insane power, great handling, weird riding position, and once underway the vibration is not too bad. Didn’t notice much heat.
    Compared to my own 2008 Road Glide with the 103 stage 2. — most of these bikes are more powerful, yet produce much more heat when riding. I do notice the heat on my right leg when stopped, but rarely when riding. My seat is more comfortable, and the windscreen (Clearview) is decent, if not adjustable. Faults: handling is not as good as any of the above, especially at above legal speeds in a corner. Ride is “cushy”, which is great on a long ride, especially 2-up with luggage — no jarring ride. Motor is still strong and uses about 1/2 litre of oil between changes — at 86,000 km. Only mechanical problem was a starter issue, covered under warranty.

    • ADB

      Mike, one lighter alternative might be what I just bought last year – a new Norge. Air cooled, but shrouded and vented to the point that there is virtually zero heat. Even in summer time stop and go traffic, the bike feels cool. No heat like an FJR. Everything is ducted to the underside of the bike. Nice design on the configuration of the fairing and head covers.

      Couple this with 566 lbs. dry, just over 100 hp, a fabulous long haul stock seat, great brakes, electric windshield, full fairing, big hard bags, and nimble handling, and you have a nice alternate to any of the big H-D touring bikes.

  • TheMarvelous1310

    HOLY COW YOU GUYS, Harley-Davidson just published two actual HORSEPOWER NUMBERS! I’m looking for those flying pigs… Oh, look! A police helicopter!

  • johnbutnotforgotten

    Never had an interest in owning a bike that outweighs my first 3 cars (Vauxhall Vivas) has a bigger engine than all but one (a 2000cc Vauxhall Victor wagon) of the cars i’ve ever owned, but i have ridden big Harleys when i used to train RCMP patrol officers and it is an interesting experience (and hey, the Triumph Rocket III has a bigger engine than all three of my pickup trucks, so that puts things in some sort of warped perspective)

  • Jim

    So, how do we know that this isn’t a higher displacement version of the existing twin-cam engine? Is it actually a newer design? Kind of funny, too, that HD is one-upping Polaris’ (Victory) 106 and 111 engines by just a few cc’s. I mean, heck, if a 106 is good, then a 107 must be really good!

  • DAVID

    A day late dollar short, I’ve heard about 15 years ago est. HD make so much money by selling 1929 tech with a good sales pitch they were paying paying like $30+ dollars per hr!!! SERIOUSLY air cooled 2 cylinder at what price again? they should have done this 10 years ago, It’s no secret what they did they under powered there bikes to get people to buy all those after market parts to increase profit. Typical company hanging on to there past with no new product because they pissed away there profits by paying those kind of wages with big bonuses and don’t forget way to many old timers still running that company *** ’20K + FOR A 2 CYLINDER AIR COOLED’ ***what year is it again? They can only put so much chrome on and 10 coats of paint to make old technology new if you call it that…….

  • Franco Mannarino

    The column needs correction. The heads indeed have 4 valves.

    • denchung

      That it does. The EPA certification document still lists the engines as having two valves per cylinder but we will have to assume this was an error on the EPA’s part.

  • John

    Just dont wait, get a Triumph thunderbird Storm has four valves handles like a triumph(Good) has good brakes, goes hard, as a harley mate said to me after test riding one said that’s the way I thought harley were out of the box but there not, have to spend heaps to get one to go the same. Have to give Harley one thing they hold there value better than the thunderbird but its the only thing going for them.

  • John

    Just don’t wait, get a Triumph thunderbird Storm has four valves handles like a Triumph always has(Good) has great brakes, goes hard. A mate who owns a Harley said to me after test riding one that’s the way I thought Harley were out of the box but there not, have to spend heaps to get one to go the same. Have to give Harley one thing they hold there value better than the thunderbird but it’s the only thing were there better than the Triumph Thunderbird. I’m talking about the standard Harleys not the Street Glide which I took for a test ride and have to say they’re a really nice ride and really loved it but there the only Harleys that do anything for me.