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-   -   In the Internet age, why bother with print? (https://www.motorcycle.com/forum/motorcycle-magazine-discussion/5085-internet-age-why-bother-print.html)

rdlviper 06-21-2007 08:38 AM

In the Internet age, why bother with print?
 
I seem to rely less and less on print magazines. I prefer a website with nice high-res pictures, and good content. I also really appreciate a PDF feature, so I can save it, and read it on long flights. For Motorcycle.com, I just use the print friendly version, and then Print to PDF feature on my Mac. Works like a charm :)

I just can't comprehend the need to kill so many trees. Did you know that of all the magazines they print for newsstands, about 70% of them end up going to the shredder? Terrible for the environment.

Go green - go online! lol

BrowningBAR 06-21-2007 08:52 AM

Actually a lot of people are complaining about the pollution that computers cause.

Is it as bad as paper, I don't think so. But I am seeing more and more "reports" about computer pollution.

schizuki 06-27-2007 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdlviper (Post 162238)
I just can't comprehend the need to kill so many trees.

I just can't comprehend dragging my computer into the bathroom once a day.

seruzawa 06-27-2007 07:00 PM

Well, actually trees grow back and the paper companies have their own forests for that purpose. Also, paper is fully biodegradable while circuit boards and microchips are toxic and the plastic lives forever.

So in the long run making paper is less damaging to the environment than making computers.

pplassm 06-27-2007 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schizuki (Post 163623)
I just can't comprehend dragging my computer into the bathroom once a day.


Exactly. Also, my laptop doesn't fit on my exercycle, and I still end up in places where THERE AIN'T NO INTERNET!!!!!

schizuki 06-27-2007 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seruzawa (Post 163626)
Well, actually trees grow back and the paper companies have their own forests for that purpose.

Yeah, I've never understood the obsession with saving trees. We're more forested now than 200 years ago, and trees grow. Rather quickly.

Here in Maine, where private property means "You pay for it, but we'll tell you what you can do with it, which is 'nothing'", paper companies are always getting crap. This in a state with huge sections that are so unpopulated they're not named, they're numbered.

It would be great if people who liked telling other people what they can do with their property would pony up some dough to buy it and leave it undeveloped.

seruzawa 06-27-2007 08:10 PM

The people who worry about the forests being 'destroyed' also usually worry about water and air being 'destroyed' too. LOL!

maladg 06-29-2007 05:12 AM

I blame the loss of discussion IQ on the new MO format.

Buzglyd 06-29-2007 05:39 AM

If you lived in a tree, you would have to read a magazine because it's kinda hard to use a computer in a tree.

seruzawa 06-29-2007 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzglyd (Post 163819)
If you lived in a tree, you would have to read a magazine because it's kinda hard to use a computer in a tree.

So you're saying that Daryl Hannah can read?

BrowningBAR 06-29-2007 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schizuki (Post 163637)
Yeah, I've never understood the obsession with saving trees. We're more forested now than 200 years ago, and trees grow. Rather quickly.

Here in Maine, where private property means "You pay for it, but we'll tell you what you can do with it, which is 'nothing'", paper companies are always getting crap. This in a state with huge sections that are so unpopulated they're not named, they're numbered.

It would be great if people who liked telling other people what they can do with their property would pony up some dough to buy it and leave it undeveloped.

I worked with one of those trendy environmentalists freaks for a bit and I would on occasion poke her in the eye with some tasty info like "We're more forested now than 200 years ago".

She would just stammer, get agitated and yell "What about all of the roads!?”, essentially saying that roads take up a lot of space and cut into the cute cuddly forests.

I think more people need to fly or drive across country more often. The amount of open space and untouched land that is still out there is amazing.

Kenneth_Moore 06-29-2007 06:45 AM

Must...ignore...right...wing...corporate...propaga nda...talking...points...errrrgh...

SOOOOO, how about that new Concours 14? Man, that's gonna be GREAT, don't you think? Can't wait to hear how Pete's ride goes this weekend!

seruzawa 06-29-2007 06:49 AM

Must...ignore...left...wing...NGO...propaga nda...talking...points...errrrgh

It'll be great to have ANY motorcycle test!

sarnali2 06-29-2007 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seruzawa (Post 163821)
So you're saying that Daryl Hannah can read?



I think she played someone who could read in a movie...

Kreb_Cycle 06-29-2007 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seruzawa (Post 163626)
Well, actually trees grow back and the paper companies have their own forests for that purpose. Also, paper is fully biodegradable while circuit boards and microchips are toxic and the plastic lives forever.

So in the long run making paper is less damaging to the environment than making computers.

Pulp mills are notorious poluters. Also, how many pieces of paper are you talking about in order to compare polution from creating paper vrs polution from creating a computer? You can structure the argument to make either worse depending on how many apples equals an orange. Besides, we all already have computers, so you can use less resources, energy and tree, by looking at stuff online rather than buying a paper copy of them, not to mention it costs less. That's why companies are going to electronic invoicing, among other document types.

BrowningBAR 06-29-2007 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 163832)
Must...ignore...right...wing...corporate...propaga nda...talking...points...errrrgh...

SOOOOO, how about that new Concours 14? Man, that's gonna be GREAT, don't you think? Can't wait to hear how Pete's ride goes this weekend!

-I have never voted republican. Ever. Just because I disagree with Demos doesn't make one a Repub...Not a demo either, though.

Oh, and as far as I am concerned, the occasional political talk is fine by me. It's when it turns into screaming and insults is when it goes wrong. And I think that is the general feeling of the mods and the site in general. KPaul's issues were self inflicted more than anything.

I'm guessing A LOT of people are going to be disappointed in the new Concours. I have NO facts to back that up, though. But when I look at it it just screams of a bike that will fall short of everyone's lofty expectations. If it isn't "down on power" it will be "too heavy" or it will have something wrong with the suspension or runs too hot or the build quality will be poor.

Personally, if it isn't too big, it will seem like a good replacement to the Triumph Trophy. I loved the trophy and nearly had one if it weren't for a lame dealership with poor customer service.

BrowningBAR 06-29-2007 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreb_Cycle (Post 163844)
Pulp mills are notorious poluters. Also, how many pieces of paper are you talking about in order to compare polution from creating paper vrs polution from creating a computer? You can structure the argument to make either worse depending on how many apples equals an orange. Besides, we all already have computers, so you can use less resources, energy and tree, by looking at stuff online rather than buying a paper copy of them, not to mention it costs less. That's why companies are going to electronic invoicing, among other document types.

-Actually the protest of computer pollution comes from those who also protest all types of polution, including paper. Their complaint (not mine) on computers is that they are not recycled or biodegrade. The opinion is that computers use just as many, if not more, resources than paper due to production and ongoing energy uses. Claims are that the carbon usage (or whatever the hell it is called) is just as worrisome as paper usage. Whether this argument is correct doesn’t matter. It is still being stated as fact (whether that is accurate or not).

MY complaint is that EVERYONE is protesting EVERYTHING.

Keep in mind, the general feeling of motorcycles is that they are dirty...in some way, shape, or form. All it will take will be for some group to start complaining that most bikes are used as recreation (riding for the sake of riding) and that they should be more heavily taxed or restricted due to irresponsible usage (read: wasting energy).

schizuki 06-29-2007 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 163832)
Must...ignore...right...wing...corporate...propaga nda...talking...points...errrrgh...

Actually, Seru and I are libertarians, and I think BrowningBAR is, as well. So, it's "libertarian rationalist fact-pointing-outting" that you must ignore.

Big smiley.

BrowningBAR 06-29-2007 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schizuki (Post 163875)
Actually, Seru and I are libertarians, and I think BrowningBAR is, as well. So, it's "libertarian rationalist fact-pointing-outting" that you must ignore.

Big smiley.

-Yep, Libertarian. The '08 election will mark the fourth presidential election in a row that I voted Libertarian.

Kreb_Cycle 06-29-2007 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrowningBAR (Post 163850)
-Actually the protest of computer pollution comes from those who also protest all types of polution, including paper. Their complaint (not mine) on computers is that they are not recycled or biodegrade. The opinion is that computers use just as many, if not more, resources than paper due to production and ongoing energy uses. Claims are that the carbon usage (or whatever the hell it is called) is just as worrisome as paper usage. Whether this argument is correct doesn’t matter. It is still being stated as fact (whether that is accurate or not).

MY complaint is that EVERYONE is protesting EVERYTHING.

Keep in mind, the general feeling of motorcycles is that they are dirty...in some way, shape, or form. All it will take will be for some group to start complaining that most bikes are used as recreation (riding for the sake of riding) and that they should be more heavily taxed or restricted due to irresponsible usage (read: wasting energy).

Without paper, there can be no paper airplanes. Paper Airplane

My bike is extremely dirty, I guess I'm part of the problem.

Kreb_Cycle 06-29-2007 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schizuki (Post 163875)
Actually, Seru and I are libertarians, and I think BrowningBAR is, as well. So, it's "libertarian rationalist fact-pointing-outting" that you must ignore.

Big smiley.

All corporate right-wingers call themselves libertarians I thought.

Buzglyd 06-29-2007 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreb_Cycle (Post 163883)
All corporate right-wingers call themselves libertarians I thought.

Makes us seem less scary that way. And idiot liberals don't know what it means. They just nod their heads and say something like, "working in a library is an important job."

seruzawa 06-29-2007 10:59 AM

Anyone....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreb_Cycle (Post 163883)
All corporate right-wingers call themselves libertarians I thought.

...can call themselves anything they want. I, on the other hand, believe that it is time we threw off the yoke of left/right/corporate/socialist oppression and all bought nice new TriumphSTs, Tigers and ZX14s and rode the living pi$$ out of them.

BrowningBAR 06-29-2007 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seruzawa (Post 163886)
...can call themselves anything they want. I, on the other hand, believe that it is time we threw off the yolk of left/right/corporate/socialist oppression and all bought nice new TriumphSTs, Tigers and ZX14s and rode the living pi$$ out of them.

-I still want a Triumph Trophy!

The_AirHawk 06-29-2007 12:02 PM

Quote:

"In the Internet age, why bother with print?"
Because you can't line a birdcage with a $1000 laptop.

Kenneth_Moore 06-29-2007 01:18 PM

I'm just kidding around. I don't mind the political or anything else anybody wants to write. Everybody has a right to their opinion, and there have been a few occasions where I've been convinced to change mine. It's just that once I start on that stuff, I get a little hysterical, so best for me to leave it be.

I really like my 1000. It's not that attractive, especially from the front, and it's certainly not fast compared to many bikes, but it's fast enough for me, has lots of protection from the wind and rain, and can carry me and the youngster and our stuff for a weekend with no problem. And there's always the trusty HD when I need a dose of old-school. Interestingly, brand spanking new Concours 1000s are on cycle trader for under $7k. That's 20 years of refinement, a huge aftermarket, and a LOT of bike for the price of a Sporty.

Having said that, when the 14 is in the dealers, I'll be there to look and sit. It's either going to be "gotta have it," or "no big deal." If I did get it, I'd have to finance it, and that is a philosophical bridge I'd have to cross, as I've always owned my bikes outright. Car payments suck enough as it is.

schizuki 06-29-2007 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreb_Cycle (Post 163883)
All corporate right-wingers call themselves libertarians I thought.

Hey, hippie, put down the bong and try to imagine how utterly miserable and short your life would be without those eeeeeeevil corporations.

I'm a proud member of the Agnostic Pro-Gun Pro-Choice Pro-Drug-Legalization Anti-Anti-Porn Corporate Lickspittle Party.

Kreb_Cycle 06-29-2007 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schizuki (Post 163917)
Hey, hippie, put down the bong and try to imagine how utterly miserable and short your life would be without those eeeeeeevil corporations.

I'm a proud member of the Agnostic Pro-Gun Pro-Choice Pro-Drug-Legalization Anti-Anti-Porn Corporate Lickspittle Party.

I don't have to put down the bong to know that I'm not against corporations at all. Remember, I'm a Democrat. All us Democrats, especially the ones in office, are deep in bed with corporate interests. We're actually quite happy having corporations run our government through by proxy through lobbyists, just like the Republicans.

Aside from that, I'm hoping against hope that my startup will be bought out by a big evil corporation that has lots of money.

I was just surprised that you corrected "right wing corporate" into "libertarian rationalist". It's not even less syllables.

schizuki 06-29-2007 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreb_Cycle (Post 163941)
I was just surprised that you corrected "right wing corporate" into "libertarian rationalist". It's not even less syllables.

Oh, SNAP!


Oh, SNAP!


(I had to write that twice because the idiot forum software said it was too short. THERE WILL BE NO PITHINESS ON MO 2.0!)

pdad13 07-01-2007 12:20 PM

I think I can offer some possible answers to your question.

Why? Because magazines, in many cases (as stated here) are more convenient. It's a bit harder to curl up with your laptop.

People still like to hold a magazine, look at the big pictures (a computer screen isn't quite the same). A well designed magazine is just more beautiful than most web sites. They like to feel the paper of a high quality magazine.

They like to be able to throw it in a bag and read it on the train instead of lugging and unpacking a laptop and using their battery power. You probably wouldn't take your laptop to the beach.

It takes time to prepare your digital files to read when you're not going to have internet access. It's easier just to bring a print mag.

Ask yourself this: Why does a tech magazine like Wired even have a print edition at all? Obviously, because lots of people still want it.

The Internet and computer technology is great in many, many places. I work for a digital design firm and I'm a pretty heavy user. But there is still a sizable place for print magazines. And I'd guess that there will be for a long time to come, possibly always.

The_AirHawk 07-02-2007 09:04 AM

pdad's a Treekiller.

:o

Kenneth_Moore 07-02-2007 09:13 AM

And one more great reason for print magazines: you can save them and build a collection! When I was a kid I loved reading my Dad's collections of various magazines (he was a camera buff) but I also read all my neighbor's Dad's R/C airplane magazines. Although I never caught the camera bug, I sure did get the R/C plane bug!

I'm hoping one day my son will pull his head out of his Nintendo D/S long enough to notice the extensive collection of bike mags I've built and start browsing them.

The_AirHawk 07-02-2007 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 164108)
And one more great reason for print magazines: you can save them and build a collection! When I was a kid I loved reading my Dad's collections of various magazines.

I read MY Dad's collections of various magazines too. But, they're probably illegible now, with all the pages stuck-together an' stuff.......

Kenneth_Moore 07-02-2007 09:33 AM

THAT was the reply I was setting up for!

The_AirHawk 07-02-2007 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 164115)
THAT was the reply I was setting up for!

:o :D .

sarnali2 07-03-2007 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrowningBAR (Post 163848)
-
Personally, if it isn't too big, it will seem like a good replacement to the Triumph Trophy. I loved the trophy and nearly had one if it weren't for a lame dealership with poor customer service.



I beg to differ there, mon fre'r. The appeal of the Trophy, aside from drop dead gorgeous looks was in it's simplicity. Simplicity begats reliability and the ability for a reasonably skilled owner to diagnose and repair any problems that crop up. The only thing "hi tech" on the bike was electronic ignition, other than that it was a carburated watercooled inline four with chain drive, no servo activated windshield or suspension, no variable valve timing, no electronic instruments, just a basic motor and two wheels bike with some body work..


From my own perspective that's a good thing, I like my bikes simple and reliable. My Explorer and Range Rover are electronic everything, I can barely change the oil and air filters on them, I don't mind that on a cage but I personally don't want or need that level of sophistication on a bike and that's exactly what you get with the Concours, BMW, FJR and ST1300. Unless I go insane anytime soon my next bike will be an Airhead RT or another Trophy for a winter bike.

The_AirHawk 07-03-2007 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarnali2 (Post 164215)
I beg to differ there, mon fre'r. The appeal of the Trophy, aside from drop dead gorgeous looks was in it's simplicity. Simplicity begats reliability.

Yeah, and when the Nukular Winter DOES come in a few years (after the Last Great War), you'll be able to roam the Great American Wastelands as a Reaver; living-off of what you can find, stealing from those weaker than you. Just place to place to place, lookin' for that next tank of Juice to fuel your high-octane Terrorcycle.

Personally, I'd stick close to the Midwest Oil-fields - somebody is SURE to build themselves a tiny, crudely-constructed refinery next to one of them Kansas Oilwells. It'd be goin' day and night, night and day; Ka-chunk, Ka-chunk, Ka-chunk, Ka-chunk, Ka-chunk...........

Kenneth_Moore 07-03-2007 12:06 PM

Two thoughts:

1. If there's anything all that high tech on a Concours, I sure missed it. 4 carbs, basic electronic ignition, shaft drive is pretty simple. The most difficult thing on the bike is taking off the damn bodywork.

2. If simplicity of design and ease of repair appeal to you, perhaps I could interest you in a lovely '77 HD FXS Shovelhead. It can be repaired with screwdrivers, pliers, and a crescent wrench, and most parts are interchangable with common farm implements. Unless somebody f's it up, it will be running long after I'm dead.

pdad13 07-03-2007 12:19 PM

Yes, it's true. I've always hated the leafy b*stards. The way the stand there, all smug; it drives me nuts. I walk past the same ones every day and they never ask how I'm doing or even have the common courtesy to wave.

A tree tried to kill me on my birthday this year. Jumped right out in front of my car (it pretended like it just "fell." Yeah, riiiight). They're everywhere and they're vicious. But people just refuse to see.

I'll get 'em, though; everyone I can. I'll buy newspapers I won't read. I'll print every useless volumous PowerPoint presentation I get at work. I'll subscribe to Modern Bride.

I'll stop at nothing. Nothing, I tell ya!

Kenneth_Moore 07-03-2007 01:41 PM

Buy one small item from J-P Cycles and you will do more to deforest North American than 10,000 chainsaw wielding lumberjacks could in 20 years. They send me a phone book sized catalog almost every month, and they won't stop no matter how many times I ask.


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