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Elgius 05-05-2006 08:56 AM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
First post! And now what?

BMW4VWW 05-05-2006 09:12 AM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
If all you did was post to be first without reading the article I'm going to get off my bike and kick your ass!

anrajala 05-05-2006 09:15 AM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
Well of course the guy is guilty as hell but locking him up for, say, 10 years more won´t bring Rick Stern back. The moral of the story here is that on two wheels you don´t get involved with road rage. If you do and then some loser in a two ton monster nails your sorry a$$, there you go. Literally.



- cruiz-euro


kihei 05-05-2006 09:24 AM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
I teach a high school driver's education class. As a long term rider, I always make students aware that motorcycle riders are other drivers on the roadways too, not just the drivers in 4-wheels. These riders are authorized to be on the roadways with cars, trucks and SUV's, so another skill needed by drivers is to be aware of riders. When an altercation occurs between a driver and a rider, it will most likely be the rider who is injured or killed as a result of the driver's action.

As riders, we need to always maneuver to that safe zone, and totally disregard the actions of drivers so that we, the rider, do not act on an emotional impulse to create a situation that would justify the driver's retaliation against the rider. I am not supporting any action by any driver or rider that would intimidate or create an event that would cause bodily injury to either the driver or the rider.

As riders, we need to take responsibility for how we react to the disregard of drivers, especially if the rider is not riding in a courteous and safe manner. I hate it when those wannabe racers leave a traffic intersection doing a wheelie down to the next intersection. It gives ammunition (pardon the pun!) to drivers validating the impression that motorcycle riders are all maniacs.

I have replaced my itsy-bitsy of a horn with a 130db blaster! The only real sane and acceptable method to get back at a driver who didn't see you in his/her (politically correct) mirror!! Most drivers will accept a blast because now you have warned them that you were in that spot to begin with. Most drivers will accept that, on that occasion, they made a mistake. But when the rider feels that they need to escalate this issue by kicking in a door or breaking off a mirror, now, the rider has created the problem. And, unfortunately, it will be the rider who suffers the most in the end.

Be responsible. Ride smart. Ride safe. Ride long.

anrajala 05-05-2006 09:25 AM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
...so I meant to refer more to the case of Julius than Rick.



- cruiz-euro

maladg 05-05-2006 09:28 AM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
Here in ATL's crazy traffic, I make a real effort to chill, let people in, let weirdo's slide, etc.



Years and years ago in Rider, a female columnist (pretty sure not Donna C) wrote a horrifying tale of being road-raged by some nutcase.



Of course all this is not new. Remember 10 yr ago or so, "Woad Wage" (Baba WaWa's pronounciation) was all the rage. Brock Yates wrote several great columns on that issue.



I've posted this experience here before but here goes again: a couple of years ago, I was ambling along pretty gently on Wolf Pen Gap Rd. (GA 180) at the narrow part leading up from Vogel State Park. On my almost unhearable ST11...I quietly - and pretty slowly - passed a bearded 60'ish guy on a bicycle...a very fancy bicycle. He stopped and started screaming at me. I stopped, heard a bit of furious gibberish and decided to ride on and just let it go. My only comment to him was "Gore Voter!". No, it did nothing to defuse the situation and was pretty dumb & juvenile on my part. A quick exit on my part did defuse - at least for me.





I suppose I could bloviate on the "Birch" comment. Gabe, lets just say it didn't have the intended effect for me. I knew (slightly) the Flight 007 Congressman and Birch member and his father...and I'm NOT a Birch admirer.

staff 05-05-2006 09:42 AM

Bloviating...
 
Thanks for making me look up that word. Funny that I didn't know what it meant even though I do it a lot.



Rest assured that "Birch-worshipping" was meant to tease those with a conservative bent and not to make light of the death of anybody, Birch member or not. I didn't even know about that.



I do know that Birchers are viewed by most as political extremeists with bizzare and unfounded views and so deserve to be made fun of, no matter how untimely or tragic their deaths. I certainly meant no actual disrespect or insult to anybody who reads MO...well, almost nobody.



Thanks for reading and posting and ride safely,



Gabe

Fenton 05-05-2006 09:54 AM

Re: Bloviating...
 
Forget Birch; I'm going to kick your ass for the "no one to bomb and make us feel better" comment.

brandenw 05-05-2006 10:02 AM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
I don't think it makes any sense to say that 'rage' is like being drunk or intoxicated and that you can't concentrate or make rational decisions. I've been upset before, to the point of wanting to hurt someone (not a road rage incident, but rage is rage) but I didn't (maybe when I was 12 I did). If you give in to that it's usually a sign of being extremely self-centered and it's not a typical person's response to a situation.



Maybe I should eat a bunch of beans and then run someone over and say I wasn't thinking straight because I had gas.

sarnali 05-05-2006 10:16 AM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
The easeist thing to do is carry a .45 and cap the motherf*ckers if they get too close. That's why they have fingerless gloves.



" sorry officer I was ensuring my pistola which I have a permit to legally carry was unloaded and in a safe condition when it discharged into the motorists groin 5 times after he got out of his car to teach me a lesson"



Alternativly you can bear in mind that you will lose any confrontation with a cage and get out of their way and don't respond to their insults. It's hard to do sometimes, but try to....you'll probably live longer..

Tigercub 05-05-2006 11:53 AM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
Ya gotta be so careful out there. Anything and everything can do you in. I nearly lost control of my bike on a corner years ago when I hit a squirrel trying to cross the road...



...poor liddle squirrel...sniff, sniff.

BMW4VWW 05-05-2006 11:57 AM

Re: Bloviating...
 
Alas, what our liberal friend fails to grasp is that the greatest killers in modern times were all leftists. Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, and yes Gabe even George Bush were or are Socialists with totalitarian leanings.

cialowicz 05-05-2006 12:05 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
Heh... I found this line humerous: "If you can't get away (you might be on something slow like a moped or a Harley)..."



I'm sure that'll get the Harley riders ragin'.

BMW4VWW 05-05-2006 12:16 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
All except Bigdx. He always travels at or below the speed limit, even when being chased by irate truck drivers. Fortunately he has an open line the police department, so they can provide protection when someone is mean to him.

Gabe 05-05-2006 12:26 PM

OK!
 
I'll let your opinions speak for themselves, Van. Because that's what they are; opinions. I respectfully disagree, and I would venture that I'm far from alone.



If you think Ted Kennedy, Jerry Brown, Rose Bird, Martin Luther King, jr., JFK, and yes, lil' 'ol me are even remotely similar to totalitarian fascists, I think you need to pick up a few history books! Your POV is so outside the mainstream of political thought in our culture (although maybe not the vocal folks on these fora) that it doesn't even really bear discussion. That's why there are groups like the John Birch society. They are small but noisy, and they provide an outlet for extreme views.



God bless them and America! But this is a motorcycling website, and although I poke a few jabs at folk's political views, I do try to be an equal oppurtunity poker; there's plenty of innanity on both sides of the debate.



However, since the conservative right is driving at this point in our history, conservatives are going to bear the brunt of the jokes. When it's reversed, it'll be different; do you think I'd refrain from making fun of AlGore and Uncle Teddy and their supporters if they had any power?

manalagi001 05-05-2006 12:48 PM

Deliberately doored
 
I actually had a guy deliberatelly try to door me yesterday morning. Unreal. But the topper in all my years was having a guy in a van punch me in the head, out a window, while I was riding a BICYCLE. Go figure. Some people just can't stand the idea of anyone "breaking the rules" (in their mind) while they are stuck in a cage. We're seen as cheating death, and some people just can't stand (what are in their opinion) cheaters. They'd rather kill us. Then we won't have cheated death. We'll be dead.



Coincidence? Both of the above incidents involved white vans.

Fenton 05-05-2006 12:54 PM

Pick me too!
 
I want my POV to be "outside the mainstream of political thought in our culture" too.

Buzglyd 05-05-2006 01:17 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
Any of the people in these stories go by the handle "fastoldman?"

mikenomad 05-05-2006 01:26 PM

Re: BEFORE YOU REACT....
 
...ask yourself, "Is this really worth dying for?"

seruzawa 05-05-2006 01:44 PM

Re: Pick me too!
 
What a radical idea. One man - one vote! Heresy!

Everyone knows that people must be ruled by kings. That's the way it's always been.



Slavery was also part of "mainstream poltical thought" at one time too. About 99% of human history is one with political systems of slavery.



The USA isn't in danger of becoming a totalitarian state like Nazi Germany. It's in danger of becoming an authoritarian nanny state where those who disagree with "mainstream political thought" are thoroughly "re-educated". It's going to be a Brave New World, not a 1984. Take yer Prozac, er I mean Soma and shut up. Don't argue with your self-appointed betters.



Or hasn't anyone else noticed the enthusiasm with which cities, counties, States and the Fed try to pass laws against everything that is "bad"? All done to thunderous applause.

bowtydaddy 05-05-2006 02:01 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
" The more you drive, the less intelligent you become". Repo Man/1984

davidhaner 05-05-2006 02:02 PM

Re: Pick me too!
 
Can I take my medicinal marijuana instead?

Gabe 05-05-2006 02:11 PM

Twisting words and shrill repetition of worst-case scenarios
 
A couple of favorite procedures from the Joe Goebbels playbook, may I remind you.



Note I was not telling Van to shut up, or that he should be ignored; just that discussing politics with someone with extremist, unsupported and isolated political views is a unproductive. I say the same thing to Green Party and Marxists and Revolutionary Worker's Party people as well, by the way.



By the way, only those who allow themselves to be "re-educated" are re-educated. We have a lot more freedoms than most places and I'm not really worried about the "nanny state".


Gabe 05-05-2006 02:16 PM

Some more Repo quotes:
 
"Suppose you thinking about a plate of shrimp. Suddenly somebody will say like plate or shrimp or plate of shrimp out of the blue no explanation. No point in looking for one either. It's all part of a cosmic unconsciousness."



"Miller (handing Otto a pine tree air freshener): You find one in every car. You'll see."



Oh, and my favorite line:



County Sheriff: From out of town, hmm? What's you got in the trunk?



J. Frank Parnell: oah...you don't want to look in there.



(thanks to the maniac who posted the entire transcript here: http://users.erols.com/bobcan/repo/script.html)

seruzawa 05-05-2006 02:31 PM

Re: Twisting words and shrill repetition of worst-case scenarios
 
Playing the "Nazi card" huh?



6 million children on Ritalin and rising. Oh no. Everything is just fine.



Ostrich.


ksquid 05-05-2006 02:33 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
I should get some kind of royalties for use of the phrase GPTB (Gray Pony Tail Brotherhood). As long it make it into the wikipedia I am fine see link in wikipedia

Rob-SV650 05-05-2006 02:50 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
Here in AZ you can exercise your Constitutional right to carry a pistol OPENLY on your belt. This pretty much ensures the potential rager knows you are not defenseless and he/she will most likely think twice before staging an attack.



You can have whatever opinions you want about what evil things guns are but the plain and simple fact is they are simply tools in and they are a very effective deterrent, as people don't tend to attack those whom they don't feel superior to.



Those of you in states whose governments have deemed you too childlike to carry devices with which to defend your own lives are screwed though.

Rob-SV650 05-05-2006 02:53 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
GRRRRRR hurried bad editing makes me RAGE!!!!! :-P



Ignore the 'in' after 'tools' in my post.....

Haru 05-05-2006 03:35 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
Heading home from work, I got on my ZX-12R and headed home, taking the scenic route, relishing the chance to blow out the cobwebs after a gruelling day before having a drink and dinner. I came up behind a black VW Jetta and in anticipation of the the passing zone coming up shortly, I shifted her down to 2nd. The driver of the VW lost it.



I saw him looking at me in the side view mirror and then the car started to make sharp stabbing jerks to the left over the yellow line. The sonofa***** was telling me what he'd do if I tried to pass. His swerving got more violent and all the time he was looking at me. Then he stuck his middle finger up through the sunroof.



I was shocked and rage bubbled up inside me at the uncalled for provocation and the clear threats being made to my safety. I braked and turned off at the very first sideroad that came up. I was calm enough to realize that I had better get out of the situation before anger and egos make things get out of hand and got me killed.



I cruised home very slowly. I don't express my anger with my vehicle. But I was very literally shaking with anger and couldn't type out the email to a buddy about it because my hands were shaking.



THe fellow was a fool. He had a girl with him in the car. I could read his number plate. I could have followed him. I could have been packing a concealed weapon (I know riders do). On the other hand, I think I was smart not to follow him and make him feel threatened and desperate for his and his girl's safety.



But why do people do this? He probably felt glorious and strutted around proudly at his "victory" but its all so stupid. Why create a hostile situation with other road users that can turn lethal for you or them? I am afraid that I am not above hoping that he tried this with somebody else later and got the living crap kicked out of him.



I used to post on a sportbike site and every so often some blithering idiot would announce proudly how some car cut him off or something and how proudly he pulled along side and cussed out the woman driver and kicked her door in.



what is wrong with these damn fools? Why do they act like kicking in a car door and yelling obscenities at the driver is justifiable behavior? Why do they think they can do this without deserving a corresponding response? Why is it ok to deliberately scare and insult somebody and cause damage to their car? You respond to mistakes with violence? How do you expect others to act towards you? you think they don't have egos and they don't get angry?



First you misbehave with some women, then the father comes and asks you whats up and you kick the truck and hurl obsceneties at him. Then you get run over. what a surprise. It seems that stupid KTM rider did exactly what I decided not to do with that Jetta. He escalated the situation instead of trying to diffuse it. THe guy shows up, you say, "My apologies, sir, no disrespect intended for your daughter." He yells a bit, calls you some names, you go home alive. Whats wrong with that?



What is with this stupid God delusion that people get? Especially, why do vulnerable motorcyclists get it?



I have seen motorcyclists act hostile, arrogant, and threatening too often. Its not a behaviour that I condone and I have no sympathy for riders to suffer the consequences for indulging in it.



As a two wheeler, you are riding in a dangerous jungle of big vehicles, your safety is your own responsibility, and if you can't manage your own safety and instead deliberately invite trouble, you get what you're asking for. Cars WILL cut you off, drivers often will NOT see you, some may hate bikes and show their hatred on the road. If you can't accept that and deal with it, you shouldn't be riding. And if you do ride, and end up under a truck because you aggravated the problem instead of trying to diffuse it, then whatever anybody else's blame might be, don't expect my sympathy when Darwin takes care of you.




yellowduc_1 05-05-2006 03:48 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
I have often thought that mandatory carry laws would make for a very polite society. There would probably be a prolonged period of Darwinian adjustment while the more impetuous among us weeded them selves out. Shouldn't set civilization back more than a couple of centuries.

yellowduc_1 05-05-2006 03:58 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
Haru, thanks for a well thought out and heartfelt comment. I'm glad you kept you wits about you and didn't do anything foolish though I'm with you in hoping he got the butt kicking of his life at some point. As to why some people act the way they do I'm without a clue. The older I get the more I am impressed by the rampant stupidity that seems, some days, to be on the increase. Keep thinking and stay safe.

Haru 05-05-2006 04:02 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
PS. I might add, if any motorcyclist behaved badly with my wife, sister or mother, insulted them, scared them, traumatized them because of their mistakes on the road, I would wish only bad things to happen to him.



There are certain standards of behaviour and civility that must be observed. Don't expect my comraderie just because you're a fellow rider. If you can't behave decently, you're just a common thug and I wish that your thuggery gets you what it deserves.

dmorga1 05-05-2006 04:06 PM

Re: Twisting words and shrill repetition of worst-case scenarios
 
Lord almighty, WTF does the number of children on methylphenidate have to do with problems in the world? ADHD is a complex disorder that involves the frontal and prefrontal areas of the brain to a great extent. The brain forms from the neural tube in the first trimester of pregnancy, which is why fetuses are so susceptible to teratogens during this period (toxins in the womb ingested by mom). Frontal lobes are touchy things, and frontal function varies a lot in the population at large. For people with real ADHD, methylphidate has a paradoxial effect in that it calms them down a bit, helps them focus and concentrate, and tamps down on impulsivity (ah, think road rage). Methylphenidate is speed, but the fact of the matter is, kids with ADHD who are either undiagnosed or untreated seek out stimulants through all sorts of other channels--they don't know it, usually, but stimulants make them feel especially good because they make their brains work a little better when dosed effectively. A lot of undiagnosed ADHD kids end up smoking because the nicotine helps them focus. Ironically, follow-up data on thousands of kids confirms what many of us in healthcare knew all along; kids properly treated for ADHD are less likely to abuse drugs!



I hope you're not one of those Scientology weirdoes. If you are, I'm sorry I bothered to type this, because you would certainly not benefit from factual education. However, if you're not, perhaps I've inspired you to do a little research on both sides of the issue.



On the subject of the article, nice job, MO. I find the folks who end up doing this a lot feel they need to dole out "justice" to people who mistreat them in traffic--when they feel something is fundamentally unfair, they don't check their impulses at the door. They do what they feel is necessary to correct it (often to their detriment). Occasionally, though, it's very reinforcing for the guy who manages to effectively punish someone who pissed him off. Unfortunately, when that happens, it's just all too tempting to do it again--such great results before!



I've always thought a thoughful biker is likely to live a whole lot longer than the impulsive mouth-breather. I gave up having conversations with driving idiots a long time ago. It doesn't change a damned thing. I just get on, be careful, and enjoy the ride. Enjoy, y'all. . .



David

Haru 05-05-2006 04:12 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
thanks, yellowduc, for reading all that. I didn't realize how much I'd written till it was already submitted.



Its all to obvious but keeping one's wits and never stopping thinking is the foundation of active safety, of keeping yourself safe. Too many people with an invulnerability complex out there.



You stay safe too!

jibosch 05-05-2006 04:15 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
Reading 'Street Strategies" by David L Hough, can help out a lot in not ever being involved in most Road Rage incidents. It is probably the greatest book ever written to deal with city traffic - I ride in Miami... - and the two-page chapters are well written, short, correct and contain diagrams and pictures. I have gifted over 20 copies, and they are worthwhile gifts. Please consider the read, it may save your life!

dmorga1 05-05-2006 04:17 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
I think you've got it exactly right. It's a tough decision to back off sometimes, and I've had those "shaking wth rage" moments too--just so many stupid people out there. Remember the normal curve--the center is an IQ of 100, which means that 50% of the population ain't especially bright. No disrespect to anyone with a 99 IQ, of course. :)

Fenton 05-05-2006 05:33 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
A simple rule that may help some day. If you are in a situation that gets out of hand, get off your bike asap once you stop. You'll end up with a pretty good beating trying to defend yourself while balancing a 500+ pound bike between your legs.

OTOH, what would you do if a motorcyclist kicked your car door?(Be honest) For some reason, I would say I am less tolerant behind the wheel of a car. Self preservation on the bike has taught me to be thankful when I have avoided a possible situation.

rob6118 05-05-2006 06:07 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
I've never appreciated how fast my bike was until I had an experience with road rage. Till this day I have no idea what I did to cause it, but the first clue I had was having a car swerve towards, trying to run me off the road. I followed the first advice in the column, get far far away.



Nothing like have a road rager on your bumper and a race 600 in rush hour traffic. I never realized how hard and hairy it was to go that fast in rush hour traffic before.




fastoldman 05-05-2006 06:12 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
**crickets**

sportriderjed 05-05-2006 06:14 PM

Re: Road Rage and You
 
I think it was Mark Twain that said "A well armed society is a polite society." Gotta love right to carry states, and rural counties like the one I live in where the Sheriff is fairly liberal about CCW permits. I do think being armed makes you more polite, rather than less though...at least I am much less likely to respond to anyones irritating behavior when armed because should an incident occur you could be percieved as having been an aggressor because you were armed. Dont you think being armed makes you less likely to say something rude or respond to an aggressive tone or gesture? Ironically I think carrying a gun makes me a better Christian.


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