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-   -   2004 Open Class Shootout (https://www.motorcycle.com/forum/mo-reader-feedback/2380-2004-open-class-shootout.html)

pgcjoy 04-24-2004 02:45 AM

Re: 2004 Open Class Shootout
 
Good review by the MO team and the objective conclusions drawn.



Aloha!

Buzglyd 04-24-2004 04:28 AM

Re: 2004 Open Class Shootout
 
Sean, I'm good at using my mirrors. Give me a call next time.



Buzz

seruzawa 04-24-2004 04:42 AM

Re: 2004 Open Class Shootout
 
Awright. Somebody's gotta start complaining about how he's getting ripped off for $12/year. No test is complete without it.



Well, no need for the suspense. You left out the most important literbike, the Concours.




seruzawa 04-24-2004 04:46 AM

Re: 2004 Open Class Shootout
 
Oh yeah. As if they need all the test bikes being tossed down the hillside by the GPTB.

Buzglyd 04-24-2004 05:18 AM

Re: 2004 Open Class Shootout
 
Yeah but I wouldn't have ridden them down the hillside. A proper GPTB member would push all the "Japcrap" down the hillside and then sell off the Italian and Britbikes for drug money.

coyn586 04-24-2004 05:39 AM

Re: 2004 Open Class Shootout
 
Good Times Fellas.. Good Times... I was given the opportunity to ride those test bikes too.. But I was having so much fun on my little 04 GSXR600, and the fact that none of the test bikes were on Dunlops.. I chose to stick with my 6. I did get a chance to dice around a bit with MikeE on the 10R, and Will on the R1 (and the Triumph)..



Good luck on the Gix1000 and 999 guys.. Hope ya'll didn't get into TOO much trouble over that.


ebass 04-24-2004 06:43 AM

SA the Lionhearted
 
While Sean and I enjoy exchanging the occasional friendly jab, in all sincerity the MO readership should know that this guy showed some true grit both mentally and physically in salvaging a slightly "extra crispy" test from the scorching flames of a comparo gone all kinds of wrong.



After inadvertantly punching the entire front end off of a Gixxer with his fist, I watched this guy commandeer his brother's jumbo-sized gloves because his swollen paw no longer fit into his own, duct tape his fingers together and tear around Buttonwillow the next day. Anyone who feels they didn't get their measly $12 worth out of Dirty can discuss it with me in the alley behind Hooters.



That having been said, back to the friendly jabbing!



"So SA, about that last sesh where you and Emery couldn't pass my fat, old, slow ass in 20 minutes of trying.....


F451 04-24-2004 07:01 AM

eBass, you dog
 
"Ebass is widely rumored to be popular with ladies though the rest of us saw no immediate evidence of this. A particularly scurrilous rumor has Ebass dating Sean's mother, which, if true, explains...."



Enjoyable article. I admire the engineering of all the motorcycles, but particularly like what Honda is doing these days.



MO...well worth the twelve bucks.



Hey eBass I saw you wearing (or maybe you stole it) a USC shirt, you a USC grad? That would be too bad as UCLA has much nicer colors.

pated 04-24-2004 07:09 AM

Re: 2004 Open Class Shootout
 
You know, only the slackeys at MO would have a wreck on the way to the track, take out 2 bikes, and think it was funny. You guys are unprofessional.

sarnali 04-24-2004 07:36 AM

Re: 2004 Open Class Shootout
 
The proper GPTB response would be to nimbley pick his way through the rice-rocket wreckage, pull into the nearest tavern and pound a few oil cans while talking about how dangerous sportbikes are.

SeanAlexander 04-24-2004 07:37 AM

Re: 2004 Open Class Shootout
 
I'm not sure where you got the impression that we thought it was even remotely funny. In all seriousness and in complete sincerity, everyone who was there thought it was a horrible experience and to this day we have deep regrets about the accident. As for our feeble attempts at humor in the rest of this test, they have little to do with the accident and are merely indicative of us trying to make the best out of a bad situation. -Sean

sarnali 04-24-2004 07:42 AM

Re: If someones gotta do it..................
 
Why no VFR test, were you afraid it'd win?....And WHERE THE HELL IS THE 600 SHOOT-OUT YOU'VE BEEN PROMISING ?????????? This site blows I want my money back, How come blip and minnie-me and hack-fu are gone? I could go faster on an SV 650 than that over-weight pig Honda P.O.S. you call a winner.................

I think that should cover it.

sarnali 04-24-2004 07:59 AM

Re: 2004 Open Class Shootout
 
I wouldn't worry Sean you in particular and the rest of the guys in general did an outstanding job, clearly one of the best multi-bike test's I've read online or in print, a real bang-up (?) job

I was surprised to see the CBR1000RR at the top of the pile, as the first thing you usually read about it is overweight, down on power, blah blah blah, Like you said, you have to actually ride the bikes to form an opinion.

I like your comments on the Triumph as I'm a completely biased Triumph fan and a real world street rider, not a wannabe racer.

Hope your hand heals soon, glad it wasn't worse, great artical.

christian_gates 04-24-2004 08:48 AM

Re: 2004 Open Class Shootout
 
That was a great review, and I really like the concept of putting ALL the 1000cc-ish bikes to the test. It seems that there's a tendency to include only the "Big 4 with Inline-4 Engines" in these comparisons, and I can't think of a reason why. So congratulations on breaking an industry-wide pattern that has been annoying me for a while.



The qualitative comments were highly relevant to racetrack and realworld performance expectations, particularly with respect to the demonic ZX-10. I was a bit surprised at the lap times posted, but I suspect that there's some noise in there from the conditions, which you thoughtfully highlighted.



Despite the injuries and the broken bikes, which were a massively unfortunate set of circumstances, I applaud your efforts for even attempting to do something this audacious. The fact that you mostly succeeded in your plan ensures that my subscription will be renewed.



Keep up the good work.

wwalkersd 04-24-2004 09:24 AM

Re: SA the Lionhearted
 
And on top of all that Sean still set the fastest lap times! What a he-man!



So, Eric, how come you and Pete and Will and Dale didn't get to express your opinions? Or get a vote? Nice write-up otherwise.



Oh, and I can't resist: Martin, the Aprilia's suspension is "taut", not "taunt".



"Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!" - MPATHG

Vlad 04-24-2004 09:25 AM

Re: 2004 Open Class Shootout
 
Ballsy, very ballsy. Testing the entire crop at one time. A good, balanced, fair appraisal of all of the bikes. As for the accident, well, things can happen. Too bad it was the Ducati. But I was glad the other loss wasn't one of the top tier bikes. (Ooooooh. I can hear the keys a-tappin' now.)



Cheers to Sean for riding with a broken wing.



Francis

sarnali 04-24-2004 09:35 AM

Re: SA the Lionhearted
 
"tiny brained wiper of other peoples bottoms, I shall fart in your general direction"

still funny after 30 years.

SeanAlexander 04-24-2004 09:44 AM

Re: SA the Lionhearted
 
EBass says: "So SA, about that last sesh where you and Emery couldn't pass my fat, old, slow ass in 20 minutes of trying....."



To which I must publicly reply: EB you snivelling, chair sleeping, multi-time rider-stranding, back-marker. If you and I started a 10-lap race, you on an RC-211V and me on a Buell Blast, you already KNOW be looking over your shoulder waiting for me to lap you for the second time.



In all seriousness folks, Mr. Bass has vastly improved his track-day skills and is now capable of lapping within :20seconds of my fastest lap times (when I'm riding one-handed) -Sean

CIH 04-24-2004 09:56 AM

rank order voting
 
Hey, what's up with the rank-order voting system for determining final standings? It's the 21st century, get with the program and use a Condorcet variant (hyped as "true majority" in March 2004 Sci. Am).



Fortunately, there are no circular preferences this time around, but I get slightly different results for #4-7, less affected by the outlier votes:



1. Honda CBR

2. Yamaha

3. Kawasaki

4. Aprilia

5. Honda RC

6. Ducati

7. Suzuki

8. Triumph



The big advantage of pairwise-comparison schemes is that the presence or absence of a particular bike doesn't affect the ordering of the other bikes. For instance, if you'd omitted the Kawasaki and the Triumph (and all the other preferences remaining the same), your scoring scheme would switch to the RSV beating the RC51.

Buzglyd 04-24-2004 12:20 PM

You need to get out more.
 
Put down that slide rule and try asking a girl out on a date.

seruzawa 04-24-2004 12:35 PM

Re: 2004 Open Class Shootout
 
Those GPTB s*****. Everyone knows that the superior people wobble around Mulholland passing SUVs and then brag about their "prowess" at the Burger Barn.

seruzawa 04-24-2004 12:44 PM

lighten up.
 
What's the actual track time difference between first and last place bikes, 2.5 seconds? That may be a stomp on the track, but for 99.99% of us it's nothing.



If people want to spend their time statistically calculating out which bike is "better", even though the difference between the "best" and "worst" is about .00001%, well then let them.



Imagine the trouble they would cause if they were govt economists instead! Hey, wait a second.....

Buzglyd 04-24-2004 01:04 PM

Re: lighten up.
 
Probably the same people who forecast what things like Medicare are going to cost 30 years down the road.

sarnali 04-24-2004 01:24 PM

Re: you're not getting it
 
If they're busy calculating away, they're not out riding clogging up the roads with their superior bikes and skills

More room for us mere street riders to wobble our way around on our slow, overweight 2 year old bikes that couldn't possibly be any fun

RC4ME 04-24-2004 01:42 PM

Re: 2004 Open Class Shootout
 
Congrats on the hard work and effort it took to create this comparo. It was quite novel to include the 1000 cc Twins as most shootouts would not have thought of it.



The subscription is worth every penny just for one article of this caliber!



Keep up the good work.



RC4ME

BMW4VWW 04-24-2004 02:49 PM

Re: you're not getting it
 
Statisically speaking my calculations show that those slow, overweight bikes also include last years models as well. VWW

ebass 04-24-2004 03:11 PM

Re: SA the Lionhearted
 
Fair enough Sean, at least you had the excuse of riding one-handed while you bravely staved off MY attempts to lap YOU. What exactly was that Brit wanker mate of yours doing with his other hand the whole time?



;)





EBass

Randy_P_Moran 04-24-2004 04:04 PM

Hey, what about the SV650?
 
Just joshin' ya. Nice article. Stupid accident though, jeez.

CIH 04-24-2004 04:11 PM

Re: You need to get out more.
 
Too late, getting married in two months...

CIH 04-24-2004 04:15 PM

Re: lighten up.
 
Hey, it's not actually about the superbike rankings, I ride a KLR for goodness sake. You just don't get to see fully ranked preferences too often, so it's a fun opportunity to see how voting systems affect the outcome.



Hmm... that probably didn't help my case much.

ZXDavid 04-24-2004 04:19 PM

Re: 2004 Open Class Shootout
 
Did I miss the dragstrip testing? or didnt I read the test hard enough?

Buzglyd 04-24-2004 04:40 PM

Re: lighten up.
 
You must be better looking than George Clooney because my guess is the little woman isn't marrying you for the scintillating conversation.

BMW4VWW 04-24-2004 05:12 PM

Re: lighten up.
 
You're right Buz, but it probably has more to do with his long travel suspension. VWW

BMW4VWW 04-24-2004 05:45 PM

Re: 2004 Open Class Shootout
 
Don't give this jerk a second thought Sean. Having had an "off road" experience on a CB 1100F back in the old days, I know how much it can shake someone's confidence. For you to get back in the saddle the next day after a brief beer session, and a long freeway ride on a modern torture rack with all of your bruises and a broken hand, and then rip off the lap times that you did is most impressive. Pated obviously hasn't a clue as to what true professionalism is all about. Perhaps he isn't aware that sometimes humor is the way that men deal with near tragedy. VWW

sarnali 04-24-2004 06:31 PM

Re: lighten up.
 
He licks his eyebrows, girls find that interesting

JALacroix 04-24-2004 06:41 PM

Editing....
 
'taunt' was used where 'taut' should have been...

Also, the specs at the end list the Daytona as having an 'all new 998cc inline four cylinder engine'....gads!



I caught these after 3 glasses of Port, c'mon guys!

mile_eater 04-24-2004 07:19 PM

Holy Crap!
 
Great Article boys. Absolutely a stunning read. Incredible. Dare I even say... worth the wait!



JohnnyB is gonna fume with rage over a Honda victory.



Funny though. the guys at Kawi must be pissed. The ZX-9 would have won all of it's comparo's if you had used the same standard as this one. So kawi finally makes a bike that will kill in your comparos, and you change the rules. Cracks me up.


SeanAlexander 04-24-2004 07:40 PM

Re: Editing....
 
Somebody moderated this post down to "Dipstick", but JALacroix has a point. I should have caught those mistakes (we're correcting them now thanks to him)



In the future, if a post is factually correct and not presented in an inflamatory manner, please leave it as posted, or moderate it UP to informative or something like that.

ebass 04-24-2004 08:36 PM

USC? Nah...
 
...I actually attended George Washington University in Washington D.C. but I have a whole buncha college jerseys from all over.



As for Sean's Mom, the rumors are false, although I have met her on several occasions and can say that I like her enough to have sincerely dreaded having to call and tell her that her only two sons were permanently fused with a Duc and a Gixxer to form the first 2 headed, 4 wheeled, 8 limbed, 6 cylinder, 1,999 cc cyborg in scientific history. Which would have been a best case scenario if Sean would have impacted the Suzi about two feet of distance to the right of where he actually did. Phew!

drthompson65 04-24-2004 08:36 PM

Re: 2004 Open Class Shootout
 
Fantastic! I've been waiting for a shoot out like this for years! Goes to show you that specs aren't everything. Good to see the RC51 get the respect it is deserves (yes I own one). :)


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