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Fugaziiv 06-24-2003 03:41 PM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
sweet first post, too bad you didn't go with the SV1k. Slackers.

captainwhoopass 06-24-2003 03:48 PM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
Okay, the SV guys have nothing more to complain about. MO did a comparo including it.

seruzawa 06-24-2003 04:18 PM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
Uh-oh. This comparo didn't turn out the way it's "supposed to".

Anybody want to make bets as to who will be first to accuse JB of being bought out by HD?

Or who will be first to bring up irrelevant anecdotes about someone they once knew who had a cousin whose neighbor once had an uncle who owned an AMF Sportster?

piinob 06-24-2003 04:35 PM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
What a troublemaker!!! I agree, however, the XB9S seems destined to be a classic. Kinda' like T-Rex. While the SV/Monster have both become me-too kind of things. I wonder what the 'S is like at 10 or 20 k miles?

Hadji 06-24-2003 04:55 PM

Which bike should I buy?
The perfect article to answer the question posted a week or two ago. Now, if only the Buell had a larger fuel tank! poor old sod. Your daddy wouldn't buy the hot rod, eh? So that's why your hooked on motorcycles......hmmmmm.

How about an article on singles? A Supermotard comparo?

Singles and Twins Forever!

Captain_1 06-24-2003 05:20 PM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
I totally agree with Burns. You can go the "safe and practical" route and park your Suzuki next to your Camry OR defy convention and get yourself something really special that you will remember forever. Life is short, enjoy the ride.

sqidbait 06-24-2003 05:22 PM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
Eyup. I'd be curious to see what happens when the SV1000 is thrown into the fray.

At $8K, it's still less expensive than the Duc and Buell, but it's got a whole lot more horsies. I wonder how its suspension would compare?

-- Michael

kwayne_406 06-24-2003 05:25 PM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
Speaking on the looks of the SV650, they made it angular to complement the bikini fairing's looks on the SV-S. Those angular lines do not carry over and look good with a round headlight. I would definitely take the first style of the SV over the new one, but if i had the choice between the first and second SV-S, i'd take the angular styling of the new one. On the ducati, beautiful. That's all you have to say, the designers at ducati are great except for the multistrada, what a flop. The XB9S is great looking, though funky, it's cool. **The opinions expressed in the above post are owned by me, they don't necessarily reflect the views of any motorcycle publications, online or print, by the way, this is kwayne_406's son, posting w/ permission from kwayne.**

Van 06-24-2003 06:00 PM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
The obvious response here, considering the price and displacement of the Ducati and Buell, being that M.O. chose the wrong naked SV for this comparo.

Make it the $7999 SV1000 with the fully adjustable suspenders and 111 rwhp and this one's over before the first shot's fired.

Also, hey, Burnsy, since you brought it up and all, care to factor in overall reliability and motor/ancillary component longevity when the subject's "20 years from now, yada, yada!" and we're including the word..........."Buell"?

DucButt 06-24-2003 06:39 PM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
Hey Burnsie, you sure that would be KPaul's clapped out SV650 and not a ratty Ninja with duct tape holding the seat together?

ikonoklass 06-24-2003 06:45 PM

Observation & a technical question
Bold words from J.B.... Thank God someone had the balls to say it. Now my question: Is there any hard-and-fast rule of physics or design preventing the VRSCA engine from powering some Buells? Why would H-D spend all that money to design its only reasonably high-performance engine, just to use it in one model, while Erik Buell is forced to contend against Japan with such an ancient powerplant? Imagine what Buell could do if he had some tools, fer crissake.

johnnyb 06-24-2003 07:23 PM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
well, there were no Buells 20 years ago, but how old are those XLCR Harleys, and what's an `83 Suzuki selling for and were there any included in the Guggeneheim thing?

sportbike_pilot 06-24-2003 07:29 PM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
I haven't ridden the Duc, but I have ridden the SV650, the XB9R and S and I couldn't agree more. The SV650 is certainly competent and amazingly inexpensive but about as exciting to ride as a Western Flyer scooter. It hops up well, but that's beside the point.

The Buell's are amazing bikes: unique but cool styling, powerful enough (watch thay flywheel effect if you like your rotator cuffs intact), flat out fun to ride, and endowed with far better handling than I would have ever imagined without riding them. I have to hand it to Buell - they have forced me to respect them with these two bikes.


sqidbait 06-24-2003 07:58 PM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
Yup. An '82 Suzuki Katana.

Rob-SV650 06-24-2003 08:38 PM

New SV650
Thank you JB, for being the first paid journalist to actually come out and say the new SV's frame looks like crap. The tube frame on the first SV was beautiful, and IMNSHO really made the look of the bike.

I do have to agree with some of the other posters though, the 650 was kinda outclassed in this comparo - the 1000 would have been a better fit based on price and displacement, although no one in the print mags seems to think that highly of the S models they're testing either (although a lot of that seems to be because it has the same ergos as a GSX-R1000 which is kinda ridiculous for a non-superbike).

One more thing, *****ing about the SV650's stock suspension is like complaining about the stock horsepower of Harleys - sure it sucks, but no one in the real world rides 'em stock for long. $200 for Race Tech springs and cartridge emulators, or about $350 including labor at a dealer, will fix the SV's front end which goes a long way toward fixing the handling on less-than-perfect roads.

Rob-SV650 06-24-2003 08:44 PM

Re: Observation & a technical question
Yes, there would be one hard and fast rule of physics preventing the V-Rod engine from being used in sportbikes: Mass/weigh. It's just too heavy for that.

Rob-SV650 06-24-2003 08:46 PM

Doh, I meant to say "weight"... stupid typos.

Betamax 06-24-2003 09:47 PM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
So the SV suxors...I guess a Connie is the only bike worth recommending now...

pated 06-25-2003 12:21 AM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
JB, you convinced me. I always wanted a ducati, but couldn't justify the price. When I get back to the States next year, I'm buying one. Thanks.

rider_md 06-25-2003 12:22 AM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!

i may not agree with the article, nor its slant (who advertises here?...hmmm), BUT it was well written, pulled no punches, and went against the grain. good definitely outweighs the bad in this article.

can we have more of THIS please? then maybe ill keep my subscription going to next year...?

longride 06-25-2003 02:40 AM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
Does anyone wonder why the mfgs. quiver when JohnnyB comes to town? First, he actually rides the bike farther than around the block, then he decides to rip one of the MO faves for being cheap and boring. Picking the Buell just shoved him into the "insane" catagory, as all the MO geniuses that never rode one KNOW Buells suck. Isn't there a website that says so? Gotta love this guy.

cstewart77 06-25-2003 02:46 AM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
Must be April 1st

fizzchem 06-25-2003 02:53 AM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
Scrap metal?


HelterSkelter 06-25-2003 02:57 AM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
>>as all the MO geniuses that never rode one KNOW Buells suck.<<

Yeah, my sucky Buell has sucked for 10000 sucky trouble -free miles so far. I'm very disappointed I was hoping to have it on the lift every weekend fixing something or other, but all I've had to do is change a bulb....where's the fun in that? Maybe next time I'll buy Italian.

MrDeadeye 06-25-2003 03:01 AM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
Great review. I don't see myself wanting a Buell anytime soon - but I follow JB's logic. If motorcycles are your main "thing", spend a little more and treat yourself to a Duc or Buell. I know the SV is a great bike, but I don't know if I'd want to sit in my garage at night after a long ride, drinking a beer and staring at it.

The SV in the junkyard in 20 years prediction is sad but true. That argument could be made about almost any Japanese bike though -- but not because of poor quality or engineering. Low resale value is the problem. Even a minor repair for an old Japansese bike can cost more than the bike is worth.

electraglider_1997 06-25-2003 03:05 AM

Infinitley rebuildable
I'm sure like any other Harley corp bike you can maintain the bike indefinitely. Try doing that with a Jap bike, you'll go broke in the process.

fizzchem 06-25-2003 03:06 AM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
My problem with these reviews is understanding how livable the bike is. I'm seriously considering purchasing a Buell XB9S, but even a casual glance at gives me some reservations, especially because the Buell would be my only bike.

An SV (or the Duc even!) may be a bit more reliable than the Buell long term. Who knows?

That seems to be the problem I have overall with some reviews. The Buell is a nice handling bike, but is it going to grenade in Year 2? The story in one of the print mags about the S3 can give a potential owner some pause. Not only that, word about lagging sales of the Buell line warrants consideration about the company's longevity.

buzzbob 06-25-2003 03:09 AM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
As a 2002 SV650 owner, I hate the new frame and angular styling......... I would have to agree with JB about the stock handling, why do you think it is a 'beginner bike'. I test rode the Buell, 'I need more experience' was my impression. At this time there was no way I could get anywhere near what this bike could do. But in a year or so................

electraglider_1997 06-25-2003 03:24 AM

Buell vs the world.
I just got through changing 3 of the 8 valve train shims on my wife's 89' Radian. It was a $1500 bike that has classic timeless looks but is cheap in componetry. Anyway, Yamaha wants $10+ tax for each bloody shim. New air filter is $30+. Actually the only thing going for this bike is that my wife can get flat footed at a standstill and it gets 57 mpg on the highway. Now look at the Buell. Awesome looks, great sound and other than oil and tires once in awhile you have a very low maintenance, cooler than cool bike. By the way, we looked at the much loved SV650 and the frame welds looked like gobs of JB Weld. Sorry Burnsie.

El_Flaco 06-25-2003 04:22 AM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
Meanwhile, you might see the occasional ratty SV650 parked on the street in a shabby neighborhood or over at KPaul's with a plastic milk crate bungeed to the back seat and duct tape covering the holes in the faded seat, smelling of cat urine.

I think that describes the bike in front of AlanHeng's house right now.

And thank you, JB, for calling a spade a playing card and laying down the law on the new SV. It's plain fugly, whether it's an S or naked, 650 or 1000. I always thought of keeping my 2000 SV around, much as you described keeping the Buell around for the future generations, but I can't see doing that with the new crop.

And coming from an SV owner, thank you for going against the Cult of the SV and daring to criticize the new one. Much like fans of the last two Star Wars movies, it seems like the majority of SVers out there are willing to unquestioningly and illogically accept whatever tablescraps are thrown to them, just because it is newer and, ergo, better.

Flickmeister 06-25-2003 04:28 AM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
No matter how you slice it, comparing a $5900 SV650 to a $10,000 Buell doesn't present much valid information to perspective buyers because they are in completely different markets. Most everyone complains of the SV's crude suspension--cheaply & easily fixable. Many complain of the Buell's ancient lump of an engine--very fixable, not quite so cheaply. You pay for personality. Hell, an '03 Speed Triple lists for $300 more than a GSXR1000. The Aprilla Tuono is in the same category--big fun, bigger price. You pays yer money and makes yer choice, but comparing the SV to a $4000+ more expensive Buell is like comparing a double-wide in Mort's Mobile Home Park to the Biltmore Estates.

I had an '02 SV650 (slightly modified motor and the Progreesive front end set-up for under $100). It was the most pure fun I've ever had on two wheels. Period. I sold it and bought an '02 Speed Triple. For some reason, we never quite meshed. Sold it and bought an '03 GSXR1000--now we're really clickin'! It MAY take the SV's place as the most fun as long as my right wrist maintains it's composure.

Since I haven't ridden any of the three bikes in this comparison, I am totally unqualified to discuss JB's opinions. They may be quite correct. I'm simply saying this type of comparison doesn't apply to the machinery's potential buyer's market. How much sense would a comparson of the Buell XB9S, a Yamaha Road Star, and a GSXR1000 make?? They are all + or - $500 of the $10,500 midpoint. The greatest actor in the world will fail miserably if he doesn't understand the audience he's playing to. I think JB missed his target by a mile. Cheers, Jack

Van 06-25-2003 04:28 AM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
Apples and oranges, JB.

What if you actually intend to ride the damn thing, instead of just buying it to say you have it?

What are the odds of the Buell being able to go the distance (or even a relatively short sprint, in motorcycling ownership terms) vs the SV1000?

No, Buell didn't exist as we know it today, not twenty years ago, but Buell has been around long enough now. In that time, how many high mileage/trouble free Buells have we seen, vs Suzukis?

Moreover, let's say you need to commute on your bike, for a living. Let's also say you enjoy taking the occasional trip; far, far away from the comforting proximity of your woodpile and/or nearest Buell dealer.

It'll be just you, your bike and your desire to make it through said trip without any glitches. You'll also be wanting to repeat these experiences and expectations over a period of years.

Hell, you might even look to surpass 20k miles, overall, on your scoot. (Gasp!)

SV1000 or Buell?

Uh huh.

Enjoy taking your car to the Guggenheim.

Randy_P_Moran 06-25-2003 04:29 AM

I've seen (and ridden) 5-year-old Buells..."Lovingly maintained" and "Low-maintenance" are not words usually used to describe them--and for good reason. They are crap, pure and simple. Crappy design, crappy execution, crappity-crap-crap. They might as well forego the hydraulic valve setup--the valves are real easy to get to once the bike falls apart around them. Put 'em on a 10,000 mile adjustment interval--that oughta be about right. I shudder to think what one might look like after 10 years of actual use.

My meticulously-maintained 2000 SV, on the other hand, is a beautiful example of competent engineering and conscientious execution, all rolled up in an inexpensive, easy-to-use package. It's called "Value" and THAT'S timeless. And I can by TWO SV's for the price of one Buell heap. Give me the $4500 bucks to throw at a stock SV and I will have your Buell lunch on any track you care to name. Hell, I'd probably be able to do that anyway, right freakin' now.

Buell...What a crock of *****. You bring that Buell anytime, Meat.

dominatr37 06-25-2003 04:51 AM

Re: Infinitley rebuildable
That's funny. i have 48,000 miles on my '98 YZF600R, and I've not had the chance, or need to rebuild it as of yet. Still runs great. Uses no oil, and just kicks ass. Nothing to make me "Go broke in the process". Oh ye of little thought processess, and to much bowing before the false god of harley...

longride 06-25-2003 04:56 AM

Re: Infinitley rebuildable
And when it breaks, and it will break, what are you going to do with it? Should we reserve your spot at the boneyard now, or just stick it on the end of the pile?

captainwhoopass 06-25-2003 05:01 AM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
Or a VFR...

Buzglyd 06-25-2003 05:07 AM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
I would have liked to see how a used VFR would have done in this test as well.

theovenmits 06-25-2003 05:12 AM

You've got to be kidding, right?
Burns is pullin' our legs - spoutin' off about how reliable an HD engine is!! Makin like it'll last 20 years 'n all! Putting a $6G bike against two $10G+ bikes!!

Comedy is just one of the unadvertised benefits of throwing money at MO.

caseyheilman 06-25-2003 05:15 AM

Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!
Easy Helter:

He's being sarcastic. He's saying that if you've never even ridden a Buell, then you shouldn't say they suck. He's saying that most of the people on this website that are complaining about the Buells are only going on what they read on other websites because they have NO real world experience.

I'm glad to hear that you're not having any problems with your Buell.

ZRX_bullock 06-25-2003 05:19 AM

Re: Buell--Puh-Leeze!
CouldnÂ’t have put it better myself.

I just completed a track day and the Buell in the group was just a road hazard to get around, whether exiting a corner or on the straights. We had a Moto Guzzi V11 Scura in the group that blasted past the Buell with ease. Trying to compare the Buell to any sport bike is a joke...

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