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SeanAlexander 06-16-2002 01:53 PM

Re: What Size Victory? 600? Openbike? Twin?
Speaking from expierience (SV w/ Racetech & Ohlins) the modern 600 inline four is about 3 seconds a lap faster at Streets of Willow with the same rider (me) the 600 gains all of its time from the apex of turn 8 (the increasing radius, banked "bowl" at the back of the track) to the "messes" (the high speed esses at the end of the back straight) and from the apex of the final "Skidpad" turn to the braking zone of turn one. Don't get me wrong, the SV is no slouch, but the 600 has about the same mid-corner speed coupled with much much stronger accelleration off of the corners and down the straights. There are a few areas where the more nimble "friendlier" SV will gain on the 600 at the Streets, but in all the power advantage of the inline 4 more than makes up for it.

jmeyn 06-16-2002 03:16 PM

Re: What Size Victory? 600? Openbike? Twin?
Please record my vote for SeanAlexander for reality check editor of Motorcycle Online.

Regarding this post, 3 seconds surely covers the gap for a really good rider over a thinks-he's-good rider which more than makes up for the power advantage...

Thanks again, Sean.

edfedup 06-16-2002 04:04 PM

I think I'm getting my money's worth
$11.95 a year.

Eh, sure beats Kent Kunitsugu and his trash-can lining magazine.

Can that guy ever come up with a new idea?

fujinator 06-16-2002 07:29 PM

Re: What Size Victory? 600? Openbike? Twin?
I'd take it even one step further and say that logic without emotion yields "you aren't really going to ride a motorcycle are you?"

So logic ends up being yet another method for rationalizing what our heart really wants in a bike (and god how I truly love the number of choices out in the marketplace, as well as those choices yet to come :-).

Abe_Froman 06-16-2002 08:36 PM

Re: What Size Victory? 600? Openbike? Twin?
These results don't completely surprise me. I have always thought that given the opportunity to have some track time, I would like a GSXR600 rather than my R1. However, those that would rag on guys (and girls) that buy open-class streetbikes because "they think it makes them faster" are way off base. I think I would be faster on a track on a 600, but frankly, the torque and relative "couch" characteristics of my R1 are thoroughly enjoyable on the street. The problem with 600s (compared to 1000s) on the street is that in order to go fast, you must flog them as if you were on the track all the time. Not neccessary with open-class torque; just twist the throttle and away you go. My opinion for amatuers like us----keep the R1 for the street, buy the R6 for the track.

Fugger 06-17-2002 03:21 AM

Re: What Size Victory? 600? Openbike? Twin?
You *****!

'Duh, it might prevent an unneeded trip to the ER.' Only a moron doesn't realize the HP didn't get you into the ER, it was the rider. Just like the article states, you'll be just as fast or faster on the R6. Therefore, just as apt to crash on it, too. Did you actually ponder what you said, or just slobered out some meaningless diatribe to impress yourself by the sight of your own words?

SeanAlexander 06-17-2002 05:22 AM

Rider differences...
As for rider skill to lap time equations (Streets of Willow):

Slowest 600cc amateurs: 1:35ish

Slowest SV amateurs: 1:36 - 1:37ish

Mid pack 600 experts: 1:28ish

Mid pack SV experts: 1:31ish

Fastest 600 experts: 1:23ish

Fastest SV experts: 1:27ish

As you can see, it appears that as rider skill increases, the lap time difference between the two bikes also increases (probably do to the extra H.P. and because user friendlieness is not as much of a factor for the really fast guys)

SeanAlexander 06-17-2002 05:44 AM

Re: Rider differences...
I forgot to mention:

It is important to note that as a rider's skills increase, typically their set-up skills also increase. Meaning, I can turn 1:27s on my personal SV, but If I hopped on a new amateurs SV with the same bolt-on mods, but without the set-up sorted, I might be turning 1:29s

If there WAS an IROC type system where we all rode IDENTICLE bikes, the 10 second per lap difference, might be more like 6 or 7.

KPaulCook 06-17-2002 06:31 AM

Give me a break.. Problem with 600s?? You are so out of touch. re you a Harley rider?
When is the last time you rode a 600? I suspect from your comments its been awhile. I disagree with your comments i.e. my ZX-6R has plenty of torque etc for the street. In fact the ZX-6R races against 750s in the superstock class.

See also (see reviewers comments about how far 600s have come):

Bottom line is modern 600s have plenty of torque etc for the street. [b] Ride a new one and find out for yourself. ,/b.

yogre 06-17-2002 06:38 AM

Re: What Size Victory? 600? Openbike? Twin?
I couldn't agree with you more. I have a '01 Mille R that replaced a very competent '00 CBR600F4. I switched not because the CBR couldn't go as fast but rather because the Mille is way more fun to ride. I really don't care if I go slower on the Mille than I did on the Honda, in fact, I'm pretty certain that it will be a while till I get as comfortable on the Mille as I was on the CBR (which is a very easy bike to get comfortable with).

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