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PsychoBueller 05-16-2002 04:09 PM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
Woo-hoo...first post!


AirCoolBMW 05-16-2002 04:18 PM

Compainion Bike.
 
I've been looking for a companion to my 79 R100S. I really wanted something in the same vein, yet modern. I can't wait to ride this thing. Put a set of barbacks on, a comfy seat, and some saddle bags and it'll be ready to go. Sacrilege to you sport bike guys I know.....

AirCoolBMW 05-16-2002 04:21 PM

Compainion Bike.
 
I've been looking for a companion to my 79 R100S. I really wanted something in the same vein, yet modern. I can't wait to ride this thing. Put a set of barbacks on, a comfy seat, and some saddle bags and it'll be ready to go. Sacrilege to you sport bike guys I know.....

AirCoolBMW 05-16-2002 04:22 PM

Compainion Bike.
 
I've been looking for a companion to my 79 R100S. I really wanted something in the same vein, yet modern. I can't wait to ride this thing. Put a set of barbacks on, a comfy seat, and some saddle bags and it'll be ready to go. Sacrilege to you sport bike guys I know.....

A_Nominal_Squid 05-16-2002 05:43 PM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
About the standing up under braking...bikes with a single front rotor are prone to standing up a lot more than a dual-rotor setup, for some reason. This is especially noticeable on bikes with a STRONG single-rotor setup, such as my Beringer-braked CR250 supermotard. I have no idea why this is the case, but my dual-rotor sportbikes don't exhibit this tendency anywhere near as much. Food for thought for the physics majors, I guess...

acruhl 05-16-2002 06:54 PM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
There's all kinds of reasons for a bike to stand up on the brakes. Too low CG, gyroscopic effect, tire profile...



I don't think I saw what size the wheels were. If the back tire is even slightly pinched, get a narrower tire and turn in will improve. Really triangular tires like D208GPs may help too. D207s (street version, not GP) just plain suck... I don't know why bike manufacturers still use them!



Gotta love that horsepower and torque though. Look at those curves... Can't argue with that at all. I really want to ride one of these things but they keep disappearing from the local dealer.

minime 05-16-2002 08:05 PM

Re: Compainion Bike.
 
Naaah, not sacrilege at all. My first real streetbike was my dad's old 1977 R100S. That red, Conti replica exhausts, Mikuni Flatslides, bored a bit over, swingarm brace, etc. I miss that bike. the late Greg McQuide and I used to talk about old BMW experiences (He had an '80 motorsport I believe it was). There's nothing but good in that. Do what you want. Enjoy it however you choose. Life's too short.



Cheers,

Minime

superbikefan 05-16-2002 09:23 PM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
Have they all been recalled yet to fix quality control problems? They will be...

Huss 05-16-2002 10:02 PM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
AAAAHHH SHADDAP! I've had recalls on my Hondas, Yamahas, Suzukis. Yes my Japanese bikes are more reliable than European and American bikes but I sure as heck have found out that they aren't close to perfect.

Huss 05-16-2002 10:08 PM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
Maybe, I'm just reading the Ghezzi-Brian Supertwin brochure and it has twin rim-mounted front rotors. They claim that this helps the bike to stand up less in corners than a normal set-up. But for one disc? Hey, anybody out there with a G-B, whydontcha take off one of the front disks and let us know if it stands up on the brake in a corner!

sqidbait 05-16-2002 10:22 PM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
How 'bout including a VTR in the comparison

between the Buell and the Duc?



And since the Buell is down on HP, how does it

compare against an SV650? The 4K price

difference could buy a lot of upgrades on the

Suzuki.



The Buell is attractive, but I imagine I'm better

off just buying a VTR...



-- Michael


PsychoBueller 05-17-2002 02:48 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
Mike,



I've ridden both the VTR and the XB. The VTR is definitely faster...by a large margin. But I felt the XB was just more fun on the road. And it looks way cooler.



Ride them both and buy what makes you grin.

veefer69 05-17-2002 02:58 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
In July I believe Buell will address the "bars to far forward" issue. They will introduce some new models based on that xb9 platform... Yeah....

seruzawa 05-17-2002 03:35 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
Put these wet-behind-the-ears whiners on a Suzuki Tempter and see how long they keep up their delusional belief in innate Japanese superiority.

rvfrules 05-17-2002 03:39 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
Anybody dumb enough to buy a loser model like the "Temptor" deserves a crap ride!


jamesohoh7 05-17-2002 03:41 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
I'm not a physics major, but I've noticed this same thing between my cruiser bike and my sport-bikes. It's is probably a coincidence.



However!, in the interest of spreading MIS-information and ridiculous half-baked theories!... :) I submit the following:



I have but one, and one only, UN-educated guess:

could it be that the single rotor puts a torque on the forks when it's used? (by creating some sort of force on whichever end of the axle it's nearest to?) You know, like.. stick a pivot through a rod and then push on one end of it, it'll spin around that pivot point. Here, the pivot point is the steerer tube.



Then again, if this was the case, I'd expect the single-rotor bike to NOT stand up when taking a corner going the other direction. Say, for example, that the bike stands up going left because the rotor is on the right. Then, going right would make it turn in even more. I can't say for sure if I've noticed that on my cruiser since I don't tend to rail a lot of right-handers in the city: most right's are from a stop and at a slow-speed. Guess I'm going to have to test this now!



Then again, like I've said... it's just my half-baked, 1-cup of coffee theory. I'm sure it's got to be a lot more complicated than this.



-James

stormcloud 05-17-2002 03:45 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
Sounds like a great bike, but I'd also like to see the VTR included in a comparo. They are both small fairing'd, grunty, light and userfriendly. Dont say you cant compare a 'Harley' to a Honda, take each on it's merits, not it's name......

LocutusDeBorg 05-17-2002 04:23 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
. ..and Buell has great response to the problems that they have had...fix ALL the bikes! Ask Hayabusa owners about how confident they are in their subframes, some of which have broken suddenly and catastrophically, pitching riders down the road. Suzuki never recalled any of them to my knowledge and didn't cover the failure under warranty either.

Buell on the other hand had some alleged failures of the front shock eye II never met anyone who had the problem) and immediatly recalled all the shocks, on every Buell. That couldn't have been cheap, didn't do much for the corporate relaibility image, but it was the right thing to do so they did it.

DurangoKid 05-17-2002 04:32 AM

$10k? $8k and I am listening.
 
I must admit, I love the way the Firebolt looks. It's gorgeous! Though I have given the bike much consideration, I don't plan to buy one. Reason? $10k price tag, are you kidding me? There are so many bikes that offer more value and performance at that price point. Which ones, take your pick, any of the 4 cylinder UJM's 600 cc or open class. Ok, ok this bike isn't targeted against those bikes, I accept that and I have no interest or plans to buy one of those either. I have given consideration to the Ducati 900 Supersport. However the same concerns apply. 70 hp at the wheel, come on? It will be intriguing to see what type of power can be found on the Firebolt with the race kit, but that raises the price even higher. Also, I checked with progressive for an insurance quote, $1300 with a $1000 deductible! The only bikes that I have been given a higher quote have been the Triumph Daytona and the Ducati 998. I think it's fair to say that the Buell is no where near the performance league of either of these bikes. I know you are planning to compare the Firebolt to the 900SS. I am very interest in this comparison, but would you do me a favor? Compare the Firebolt , the 900SS, and the Falco. I am drooling over the Falco, I would love to see how it stacks up.

Jay_Mack 05-17-2002 04:36 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
---I don't like the name "Buell" for a motorcycle. It sounds like a cross between B.M. and mewl, which is what babies without full control of their autonomic nervous systems do.

---Marketing wise, I just don't think this bike is ever going to sell. Who's going to bond with a "Buell"? "Here's my Buell, what do you think of 'er, er, 'im, er, it?"


BBD_Racing 05-17-2002 04:37 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 


Sad but true.

BBD_Racing 05-17-2002 04:40 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 


Oh no, that lunch isn't sitting too well.........



I, I, I thhhinnnk I'm gonna....byoooool ! ! !

electraglider_1997 05-17-2002 05:09 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
I just read in IronWorks magazine that there is now a 1200 Firebolt style motor. That should help in the the HP/TQ department. As for price. Harleys always hold their value much better than the competition.

xlr8r 05-17-2002 05:39 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
This stand-up-when-braking-in-a-corner sounds like what a couple of Ducatis that I once had used to do. The Pantah did it all the time, and the answer was to do the braking while upright and then dive through the corner. The early Pasos did it, too, and the answer there was careful tyre choice and watching where you put your weight ( this was in the early days of the now-common knee-down style, remember). I'm sure that once people have learned what the Buell does and why, the problem will be fixed. Clever ideas are seldom right first time but in the long run that's how progress is made, and I think Buell are definitely going the right way here, thinking differently and adding lightness.

Patrick-of-the-Hills 05-17-2002 05:46 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
At the same time, in the recent Duc 620ie test here on most favored ride-test site, they specifically said the single-disc Dark version was more agile than the twin-disc regular. Given the serving platters Ducati favors for front brakes, that makes sense. Which leads us to...hm.



Real-life physics is such lovely stuff.

Eric 05-17-2002 05:58 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
The standing up thing seems to be a concern, but nonetheless minime held off a good rider on a very good Honda RC51... Must not be a huge impediment.



I was able to ride a XB9r about 30 miles. I noticed a slight tendency to stand up, but I didn't think it was that big a problem. I know I wasn't pushing it as hard as these guys, but the bike was truly effortless on a few local curvy roads. I didn't think I was going very fast, then looked down to see that I was carrying a great deal more speed out of certain corners than I do when pushing it on my current bike. Leaning waaaay over (for me at least) inspired nothing but confidence.



The engine could use more, but the flip side is that the flat torque curve means that you don't really have to keep it wound up to have a lot of fun. The flat torque curve also means that you don't get a great sense of acceleration even as the speedo needle sweeps rapidly to illegal speeds. The sound of the engine is quite inspiring, if seemingly out of place on such a capable motorcycle.



The biggest problem I have is the bar placement -- it was fine for me on a twisty road, but the 5 minutes on the interstate were not so good (though I've had worse). I am seriously considering buying one anyway, though I may wait to see the new models this summer.



In the spirit of full disclosure -- I have a Buell M2. No recalls, no problems through 9 months of ownership and 5500 miles. The XB9R feels distantly related to my M2, but light years ahead in terms of capability, despite the fact that my M2 makes a little more power.

buella_1 05-17-2002 06:09 AM

Re: $10k? $8k and I am listening.
 
I'm curious how you say $9995 is crazy but turn around & say "I am drooling over the Falco.?" I think the XB9R fairs pretty well at it's price (especially first year model). I wouldn't mind seeing maybe a $400-to-$500 price reduction maybe when & if they introduce a water-cooled version. But I doubt they lower price any time soon.



Also, I'd like comparisons with as many bikes as possible to the Firebolt as long as HP isn't used as the over-riding theme. Everyone knows it's air-cooled so let's put this part of debate to rest. btw, I gave the price/hp another "once over" and decided to get it anyway (the battle-blue one). It should show up in a week or 2 (hopes).

sportbike_pilot 05-17-2002 06:44 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
James,



That's not a bad theory at all. Any change in angular momentum induces a torque. With twin rotors up front a greater change in angular momentum occurs with each attempt to brake, hence a greater torque. All other things being equal, this could have an effect on the tendency of a mega dual disk bike to stand up under hard braking.



It is, as you pointed out, more complicated than that as the entire geometry of the bike plays a role in this. But your theory is good as far as it goes. Keep drinking that coffee amigo.



Cheers



Martin

mxgb5 05-17-2002 07:26 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
I recently saw the new bike at a local dealer in person. Awesome looking bike.



I've been a huge Buell fan for years, although I've never owned one... my finances and the price/value relationship of the bikes never quite matched up.



Someone here made a comment about "Harley" resale value being strong. Unfortunately, this has never seemed to carry over to the Buell line.



Unfortunately, it also seems that the Harley-Davidson relationship is an impedement to Buell sales. Most of the H-D dealerships I've seen have little interest in the bikes. I suppose they make more money selling overprices chrome bits and fringed leather jackets to the cruiser crowd. There are a few dealers who have really gotten behing the Buells and it makes a huge difference.



As far as horsepower, I really couldn't care less. I've had more "fun" with a 500 cc single on the street than with larger more powerful bikes. The light weight and nible handling of the XB9R looks to make this a great grin:hp ratio.




runner00 05-17-2002 07:35 AM

Re: Compainion Bike.
 
What are barbacks ????

seruzawa 05-17-2002 07:38 AM

Re: $10k? $8k and I am listening.
 
The Buell's insurance is probably higher because of the greater chance it will be stolen than any Japanese bike. The same with Triumphs or Ducatis. Harleys generally cost high in insurance, even for the slow Big Twins for that reason. Depends on the area of the country and especially your age as well. My '91 GSX1100 costs me about $200 a year. An 18yearold's rate for the same bike is more like $6000. At least that's what the Nationwide chart shows.

DurangoKid 05-17-2002 07:50 AM

Re: $10k? $8k and I am listening.
 
Good question. It's fair to say that I am drooling over the Firebolt as well. I love the way it looks. I rode to Dallas in the pouring rain last December just to see it in the person at the Motorcycle Show. I was definitely not disappointed. To your point though, my understanding is the Falco is pumping out 100+ hp at the wheel and it can be had for roughly the same price. Horsepower should not be the deciding factor for a motorcycle purchase. That is why I would love to see the Firebolt, Supersport, Falco, and after further thought the Superhawk head to head. It would be great to see how the 2003 Firebolt fairs against 98 technology (VTR), 99 technology (900SS) and 2000 technology (SL1000).



Buella_1, I'd love to hear your impressions of your new Firebolt. Congrats and shoot me an update once you take delivery.

Big_Boy 05-17-2002 07:53 AM

Re: $10k? $8k and I am listening.
 
I agree totally. Was concidering being interested in this bike, but for the money, and with the questionable reliability, I'd pay the extra to get the falco, which is way more bike. Believe me I would love to buy American, (I drive a 1969 chevy C-10) but maybe if they hopped it up alittle or but the 1200cc X1 motor in it??? Maybe if I wait a little while and see what the reliability is, and maybe at that point I could get a used one!!!

ulhpilot 05-17-2002 08:38 AM

Re: Compainion Bike.
 
Barbacks are a device that allow the handlebars to be moved rearward toward the rider, thus decreasing some of the reach to the bars and decreasing pressure on the wrists and upper body. A more relaxed riding position.

ulhpilot 05-17-2002 08:40 AM

Re: Compainion Bike.
 
You want a companion for your R100S. I think a good choice would be a R1100S or R1150RS.

jibosch 05-17-2002 08:54 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
I Agree! I own a Blast and an M2L, both much Fun in their own way - and it is the Dealer that makes or breaks it. The Blast needed Replacement Body Panels after a Girl-friend dropped it, and it has taken over two months to get them! The Dealer in Miami carries almost NO Parts. Traction Grips and HP Spark Plugs for the M2L had to be ordered! Strictly-Harley Dealers won't service them. And the XB9R will not appease those of us, like myself, whom like more 'Standard' riding positions.



My Dealer has about 4 2001 M2's in stock, [they never bothered ordering 2002's...], and have discounted them to about $8000 OTD [[offer them $7000!] - and I know they cannot wait to get rid of them - so 'Resale Value'...? I spoke to a couple of Guys whom work there, and they feel let down by Buell doing away with the 'Framed Bikes'.



Dealer Apathy/Disappointment, and an Inefficient Parts System may well undo all of the good work that Erik Buell has done.



Too Bad.



Either Harley takes a MUCH Stronger Hand in this Brand - or it may fade into oblivion. Too many Good Choices out there to put-up with the Negatives at the prices Harley Dealers like to charge. I can get the same excuses much cheaper. How about $200 in parts and $400 in labor to replace 3 turn signals, one clutch pedal and cable, left support arm for the footpegs, 1 footpeg, and a front fender...!



I have been told, that for 2003, only the XB9R and the Blast will be offered - I hope I was mis-informed.

KPaulCook 05-17-2002 09:58 AM

Torque wins races but Horse Power sells but if I have 10000 to spend I buy inline 4
 
Buells torque curve and numbers is very impressive compared to small inline 4s (600s). At low rpm its pulling 50 ft lbs vs. under 30ftbs for my Ninja ZX-6R. This is probably why its does well out in the street. But for 1000cc in-line 4s that torque advantage goes away cause the torque curve gets closer to equal. So if I going to pay to $10,000 or so it’s the GSXR 1000 , ZX-9R , R1 or 954 for me. In addition some of the Twins low RPM torque advantage can be offset by keeping the in-line 4s up in a higher RPM range when cornerning.



But I love these things about it:
[*] Looks cool
[*] Frame carrying gas and oil in the swing arm is cool out of box thinking
[*] Focus on real world riding
[*] More than one color offered
[*] No racer boy graphics


ballan00 05-17-2002 10:06 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
I must say that I did not like it at first, but it has grown on me. I still wonder why they chose to not use the X1 motor in it, or at least make that an option. I think a $10k bike classified as a sport bike should be able to at least keep up with 600s in a straight line.



I have grown to really like the looks of it, but I would rather pay an extra $300 and get an R1. Of course, people buy the Aprillias and Ducatis that seem way over priced, but that is what you pay for something different, and the xb9r is certainly different. Actually, the bike I most want right now is the Apprilia RSV Mille, but I cannot see myself paying $13k-$17k (r mod) when I can get a litre bike for around ($10k). I guess the new R1 will stay at the top of my wish list.



- BA

M2CYCLONE 05-17-2002 10:25 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
This is my own guess based partly from talking to Erik Buell about why they didn't use the X1 motor. I believe they wanted to increase the durability & reliability of the engine. Now I have an M2 with almost 22k on it that is running great. But, with the changes that the Firebolt brings with it's engine, it should be quite a bit more reliable. It's shorter stroke & the NASCAR technology used in the valve train should help with piston/cylinder, pushrod, vavle & valve seat wear. It's piston speed at redline is about equivalent to a short stroke 4 cylinder reving to 14000. That's about 12% less piston speed than my M2 or an X1. I know from talking to Erik that reliability was of utmost concern. Other enhancements such as oil jets for its pistons will help as well. Those of course could have been added to the 1203 engine.

mandrake_the_mollusk 05-17-2002 10:57 AM

Re: Buell XB9R
 
I've owned over a dozen bikes from 3 continents, about half of them Japanese. The only Japanese bikes that never gave me any problems were the ones I didn't keep very long because I tired of them quickly. I've owned all except Kawasaki (like you?) and never been overly impressed with the quality, just the value, but I'm willing to give the Japanese another chance if something comes along that really interests me (been waiting years now for them to do something original, but it doesn't happen anymore unless you want a scooter). The Firebolt is at least a unique original worth looking at though I'm not plopping down the money just yet.


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