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fastoldman 01-19-2005 09:25 PM

Re: I hate to be a sexist, but...
That must be that sarcasm thing I'm always hearing about! It is funny!

Could you crank it up chuckles? My account runs out on Friday.

fastoldman 01-20-2005 04:02 AM

I've been here since 96. I think I've been as exposed to Kpaul as anyone (and I will admit to a certain chill at the phrase "exposed to Kpaul").

fastoldman 01-20-2005 04:31 AM

Re: I hate to be a sexist, but...
Ok, enough beating around the bush. I can't believe you fell to

Are we living in some sort of totalitarian regime? Are we not allowed to examine issues because people like you decide what's off limits to discussion?

after the whole parroting comment. I have no power over you. The charge of totalitarianism is completely unwarranted, and reminds me of KPaul saying he's the jew to MO's nazi. Very similar piles of paranoia.

Let me explain, and I gotta hurry as my account runs out tomorrow:

First, you're and mileeaters initial comments were sexist crap. It doesn't matter whose opinion it is, or how many women told you, that a fair number of women are paranoid, uptight, and don't handle power well. It is still far too small a sample to be an accurate statement of a certain group's tendencies to draw that conclusion. And it is a negative conclusion.

Now, we're in America. You're allowed to think anything you want, even if it's ridiculously unscientific. However, when you spew it in a public forum, that falls under the absolute definition of an "ism". Just pull the word 'women' out of your statement and replace it with 'black'. How's it sound now?

I'm still not saying you're evil, or a bad guy. I'm sure you're a reasonable guy - I've read a ton of your posts and they are largely quite well thought out and intelligent - and you would never do something sexist like not hire a qualified woman because of this innuendo told to you by some women. But when such statements are allowed to go unchallenged in a public forum, they can create a feedback loop for weaker intellect's justifying their own 'ism', and can create unjust conditions even though you clearly stated they were your own opinion. Which, by the way, is also a weak defense; saying it's your own opinion that jews run the world government is really no better than just saying jews run the world government.

That is why I had to challenge what you guys were saying. Obviously, my initial response was over the top rude and inflammatory, and I regret that. I woke up on the wrong side of the bed, and you guys got hit for it. I apologize.

Once again, though, we started on a thread based on motorcycles and someone other than me turned it to a topic other than motorcycles. I didn't start this, and if you think it's okay to spew about women not being good leaders in a thread about a female racer, I don't regret calling you on it.

And once again when I legitimately call someone on their bias, I get attacked as some sort of PC nazi trying to shut up debate. It's baseless, weak intellectually, and is emblematic of the sad state of public discourse. I welcome debate, but it needs to make sense and not rely on right wing radio crutches like "the liberals want us all to shut up!" This has never been true, but it draws your brain away from the fact that conservatives do actually want everyone else to shut up. All they have to do is play on your fear, tell you liberals want you to shut up, and you start to see any debate as proof, and then you can be smugly holier than thou and never have to really debate anything. It's weak, and it's a shame.

fastoldman 01-20-2005 04:34 AM
What happened, Longride or Sean or whoever, to the whole thread about I think MO deserves a healthy debate about the issues surrounding KPaul, Longride and MO, and as I have stated I am leaving the site after approximately 9 years over their juvenile dispute. To rub out a whole section of that debate out strikes me as a little odd.

There's probably a simple explanation, I am completely ignorant as to the running of forums, but I'd appreciate getting one on my last day.

BMW4VWW 01-20-2005 05:49 AM

Try reseting your threshold to -1. VWW

Holy_Kaw 01-20-2005 09:39 AM

Re: Factory Kawasaki hires a MN girl

Holy_Kaw 01-20-2005 09:50 AM

Good luck to you. Hope you decide to come back. I can't promise that anyone will be on their best behavior but it is sometimes interesting and fun and we do sometimes discuss things related to motorcycles.

Abe_Froman 01-20-2005 11:50 AM

Re: Factory Kawasaki hires a MN girl
There are many obvious reasons why there are not more girls in racing. Boys and girls are simply wired differently. Boys tend to be the adventurous risk takers and competitors, while girls tend to be the nurturers.

Of course there are (many) exceptions to this generalization. However, first off, the bar for entry into motorsport racing of virtually all kinds is much higher in terms of money and time required to get young kids involved, whether boy or girl. Getting your 8-year old into road racing takes far more money and time than having them join little league for baseball. In addition, it's likely that many parents wouldn't actively encourage their daughter to get involved even if they would their sons, or that they might even dismiss their interest or refuse to allow their daughter to participate if she expresses interest out of their own notions of what activities are acceptable for boys and girls, further reducing the number of girls we see doing this. They might also discourage their daughters by reasoning that as she gets older, her interest will (perhaps legitimately) diminish, therefore they are less likely to put forth the time, money, and effort to support them (daughters) in motorsports.

When you put together all the factors, you have fractions of fractions of fractions of girls that have started racing young with parental support, and/or when adults, have the time, money, interest, and wherewithal needed to get involved. Couple that with the fact that girls are less likely to be interested due to both biology and conditioning, probably progressi

older and estrogen takes over after puberty, therefore less and less likely to actually spend their time and money to get involved as they age and have the freedom to do so and you have the combined reasons that there are not more (or as many) women in road racing (or most other types of motor racing period.)

And that ends today's lesson. Come back next week for my lecture on fathers-sons, shame, expectations, and neglect. LOL

Abe_Froman 01-20-2005 11:53 AM

Re: Factory Kawasaki hires a MN girl
dangit, posted before done the break, it was supposed to say

"probably progressively less likely as they age and have the freedom......"

fastoldman 01-20-2005 03:55 PM

Thanks man. I can't believe I freaking learned that today! Typical.

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