Motorcycle Forum

Motorcycle Forum (
-   Harley-Davidson News (
-   -   Another Record? (

seruzawa 10-16-2003 05:17 AM

Re: Another Record?
Here we go again!

nbyers 10-16-2003 05:31 AM

What About...
Buell? How are they doing? A loss leader for Harley or are they making money?

TatdNPrcd 10-16-2003 05:35 AM

Re: Another Record?
Well, I guess H-D doesn't have to build an SV650 to make money. How DO they DO that?!? ;-)

captainwhoopass 10-16-2003 05:47 AM

Re: Another Record?
Prolly 'cuz SVs don't make much money. Harley is smart enough to make bikes that rake in big profits.

Come on, where are the Harley haters? Already four posts and not one denouncing Harley for being an evil empire tricking lawyers and accountants into buying vibrating, oil leaking inferior air-cooled, pushrod engined motorcycles with incredibly low price/performance ratios.

seruzawa 10-16-2003 05:57 AM

Re: Another Record?
Maybe this insane prosperity for Harley has made us awestruck. Who'da ever thunk that any company could be this successful this long selling, basically, two motorcycles? Apparently HD's imminent demise, as predicted by the usual infallible savants, has been greatly exaggerated. We may be in a recession, but HD would never know it.

HD has certainly been able to find what people want to buy and make it available for them. I'm just afarid that I'll be old and grey before I can afford another shovelhead basket project... er, maybe older and greyer would be a better depiction.

KPaulCook 10-16-2003 06:28 AM

Thank you Harley Boys.
[*]Thanks for making me another satisfied stockholder.[*]Thanks for buying overpriced bikes (way above the cost of making them)[*]Thanks for being loyal (like sheep) buyers of H-D apparel and accessories[*]Thanks for ignoring superior bikes built by Victory, Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha and Suzuki.[*] Thanks for buying a legend (a legend in how to market "vintage" bikes to aging baby boomers in the midst of midlife crisis's

Buzglyd 10-16-2003 06:32 AM

Re: Another Record?
Don't forget about all those low mileage used Evos flooding the market and depressing the used prices.

That's gonna happen soon, right?

KPaulCook 10-16-2003 06:32 AM

Another bad review for the new Firebolt (reality check)

Eric 10-16-2003 06:56 AM

Re: Another bad review for the new Firebolt (reality check)
Was this intended to be an ironic title to the post? The review concludes:

"ItÂ’s easy to see the attraction to this unique machine. When riding previous Buell offerings, they provided a satisfyingly unique experience that faded with time in the saddle. After many miles on the new Firebolt, I never tired of going out for another ride on it. Dare I say that I even considered it as a possible addition to my garage of the future.

"The XB12R is worthy of consideration, especially to those who enjoy riding something a little different...

"The bottom line: The XB12R Firebolt is a breath of fresh air in a mostly cookie-cutter sportbike scene, and it offers a robust platform to personalize an interesting bike even further."

That sounds like a fairly positive conclusion.

seruzawa 10-16-2003 07:02 AM

Re: Another Record?
...and all those pristine condition Knuckleheads gathering dust in old farmers' barns in the midwest!

longride 10-16-2003 07:21 AM

Re: Another Record?
Where? Where??

longride 10-16-2003 07:22 AM

Re: Another Record?
If you were waiting for an A-hole to check in, the top one just did. It's amazing that someone could be that clueless for this long.

Buzglyd 10-16-2003 07:23 AM

Re: Another bad review for the new Firebolt (reality check)
Check out the photo captions in longride's Yellowstone article and your question should be answered.

ikonoklass 10-16-2003 07:24 AM

Re: Another Record?
I don't own a Harley, but I admire what they've done and love the fact that an American company has fared so well against the Japanese. Nonetheless, let us recall that a couple years ago, dotcoms that had never made a dime saw their stock prices going through the roof. Many said we were in a "new economy" that would never go away. Where are those people now? Unfortunately, Harley's bubble will eventually burst, probably within the next year. Then I'm gonna git me that FLHT I always wanted for $12K.

seruzawa 10-16-2003 07:36 AM

I hope so because....
....we're all lined up right behind you!

The only problem is that we've been waiting for Harley's bubble to burst for about 20 years now. It's worse than waiting for bread in a Soviet Supermarket.

ValknMag 10-16-2003 07:38 AM

Re: Another Record?
From the Columbus (Ohio) Dispatch online classifieds :

99 HARLEY DAVIDSON Softtail Custom, blk, $5000 extras, alarm sys. $13,200

96 HARLEY DAVIDSON LOW RIDER, 17K miles, $9500/obo.

02 HARLEY SUPERGLIDE: With hardbags. Divorce forces sale. $13,500.

And, for you old school peeps :

72 HARLEY DAVIDSON SPORTSTER, kick start, runs. First $2500 takes it.

longride 10-16-2003 07:47 AM

Re: Another Record?
Most of those bikes are being sold for more than when they are new. I'd love to see what that Sporty looks like! LOL

seruzawa 10-16-2003 07:50 AM

Re: Another Record?
You never heard that rumor?

Back in the early 70's I used to visit Dean Lanza's custom shop in LA. He'd built one of the bikes used in Easy Rider and always had some nice choppers for sale. He claimed that he got ahold of old panheads and knuckleheads by travelling in the Midwest each fall and always found some old bikes in decent shape for cheap.

I think that they are all snapped up by now. Or those farmer's who, contrary to popular belief, aren't the least bit dumb are charging what the market will bear like everyone else.

ikonoklass 10-16-2003 07:50 AM

Re: I hope so because....
The key to their continued success seems to be the foreign market. As much as people hate our foreign policy, they love our culture, and nothing symbolizes it more than an H-D. If they have four more record quarters, I will eat all my words, sell my Triumph, buy a Harley, and become a member of the faithful.

longride 10-16-2003 07:56 AM

Re: Another Record?
Your comparason to dotcoms is silly. They never produced a product and you say yourself that "dotcoms that had never made a dime saw their stock prices going through the roof." Harley is not only making the "dime". but also produces an actual product. Dotcoms were a whim, much like your FLHT dream! LOL

seruzawa 10-16-2003 08:00 AM

Re: Another Record?
Did you catch idiot's post below? Apparently he hates HD because they sell their bikes for more than it costs to build them!! The Japanes would never do that! They are altruistic organizations who provide motorcycles for below cost, naturally.


ValknMag 10-16-2003 08:06 AM

Re: Another Record?
'04 Lowrider $14,995

'04 Softtail Standard (don't see a custom) $13,695

'04 Superglide $11,995

I chose the lowest price on each of these. Price doesn't include the $215 freight fee listed on the site. The Lowrider seems to have taken the biggest drop. Don't know what the MSRP on a '99 Softtail was, as a Custom let alone the Standard, but add the cost of freight, and it probably held its own. Assuming MSRP was paid with no grease tax, and ignoring the $5000 in extras. The Superglide doesn't help my argument at all. But then, that's assuming someone pays the $13 k for it, and that the owner paid sticker for it.

I don't want anyone to think I'm Harley bashing. I'm bashing folks who think Harleys are immune to Supply and Demand.

Holy_Kaw 10-16-2003 08:10 AM

Midnight Rider! Was yours the distant thunder heard in the night?
Where is the HighwayMan??? Hopefully out riding across this Great Country, on the only TRUE Motorcycle EVER made with a hand selected crew of his Manly Brothers in search of Atrocituors to thrash, Crotch Rocketeers to bash and good times to stash. I've heard the rumors, you know the ones. There is NO WAY that the Universally Feared, Respected and Beloved HighwayMan is just some Canuck who's been hitting the bottle heavy. Only a Man amoung Men can speak with such Force and Conviction and pull it off. If they don't get it, they just don't understand.

ikonoklass 10-16-2003 08:18 AM

Re: Another Record?
Some produced products, some didn't. Evidently, the distinction between "products" and "durable goods" is lost on you. Nonetheless, not producing a product is seldom a bar to success. For example, the Harley dealerships that have been getting rich for the past 20 years don't produce any products. HDFS doesn't produce any products, either, and look how much money they're raking in. I wish Harley-Davidson continued success. I just hope they don't go bust and wind up looking ridiculous. Although, I'd love to get my hands on an FXD Dubya-G for around $12.5K.

seruzawa 10-16-2003 08:23 AM

Re: Another Record?
Who thinks that HD is exempt from the principles of supply and demand? Certainly not I. Quite the opposite. No matter what the economy is doing the demand for HDs remains high. Most companies only wish they had the level of demand for their products that HD has.

The Superglide you mentioned is below MSRP. So maybe the demand isn't as high as it was. But look at all the deals the Japanese are offering to keep their bikes moving. Doesn't seem that HD can go along like this forever, but they just seem to keep on selling and selling and selling. Without any special giveaways or finance deals.. at least around here.

xlr8r 10-16-2003 08:30 AM

Re: Midnight Rider! Was yours the distant thunder heard in the night?
Does The HighWayMan really pull it off? Does 'pull it off' mean the same on your side of the pond as it does here in Limeyland? LOL

KPaulCook 10-16-2003 08:34 AM

Did you read it all????let me count the ways (leak/cracks) the Buell Firebolt sucks
[*]I did become a little wary when our XB sprung a slow leak at its oil cooler fitting, and it got a little worse when I saw another XB12R with a similar oil leak. I brushed that off as a supplier problem and rationalized that it probably wasnÂ’t endemic to all the XBs.

Other bad news

I got a little more worried when I loaded the Firebolt into the MCUSA van to return it and noticed a cast aluminum part at the front of the engine had a crack running two-thirds of the way through! Buell calls this part the "front isolator

[*]<blockquote>"A riderÂ’s vision can literally blur while waiting at a traffic light, and the trembling engine moves around so much that onlookers occasionally are frightened the big lump might jump out of the bike"
[*]"The engine occasionally coughs through the intake when cracking the throttle off-idle, especially when hot, and this hiccup once caused the bike to stall when trying to get underway from a stop light."
[*]"I cursed inside my helmet about the dearth of top-end power when wringing it out, and the clunky, Massey Fergusson gearbox was annoying as I snapped off upshifts and downshifts like I was riding a 600. "
[*] Trolling the Firebolt around town revealed a few other idiosyncrasies. That *****inÂ’ looking side-exit exhaust outlet from the underslung muffler dumps hot exhaust at a riderÂ’s left foot at a stop or when leaving a light, eventually making boots and pants smell like burned fuel.[*]While the fan may aid long-term durability, it is also an irritation as it whines like a trust-funder forced to work at Starbucks. Not only does the fan activate when riding slow, it also comes on as soon as the ignition is shut off, sounding like a warning system alarm or a small jet engine.[*]The unfinished (non-glossy) inner fairing panels look a bit cheap from the ****pit, and the plastic turn signal switch and bar control housings look and feel chintzy

KPaulCook 10-16-2003 08:35 AM

Re: Another bad review for the new Firebolt (reality check)
Your inferior SDSU education is showing again

seruzawa 10-16-2003 08:37 AM

Re: Midnight Rider! Was yours the distant thunder heard in the night?
ROTFL!! Thanks for the best laugh all morning.

I always did like British humor.

ValknMag 10-16-2003 08:38 AM

Re: Another Record?
I was actually surprised about 2 years ago when I saw a Harley commercial on television. Think it was the old man telling his kids about how me missed out on buying a Harley...

That's when I started looking at HD prices. I could not recall them buying TV spots before, because they never needed to. How many people noted that, in addition to the growth in earnings this past quarter, HD shipped more units, as well? They're playing catch-up with demand, and the lower prices I've been seeing in the paper looks like they're just about caught up.

Forgive me if I misunderstood your intent, Buzglyd, but you wrote,

"Don't forget about all those low mileage used Evos flooding the market and depressing the used prices.

That's gonna happen soon, right?"

Sounds like sarcasm to me. Like I said, I might be wrong--I've been wrong before--but it sounds like you don't think the HD used market will be saturated any time soon. If I happen to be interpreting that correctly, that is the sort of thing that makes the poster appear to say that HDs will hold their value indefinitely, or that nobody will ever sell their Harleys, or they'll never tire of being pretend bikers (No, I'm not saying all Harley riders are pretenders...but I personally know 3 who ride less than 1000 miles a year).

Heck, I'm even looking for a Road King to come down to an attractive price. Nothing in the Harley lineup would sway me from my Valkyrie, to say nothing of my CBR1100XX...but I want a long distance bike, and women seem attracted to Harleys. Hey, if one bike can get me in the saddle in both meanings of the word.... ; )

KPaulCook 10-16-2003 08:38 AM

Re: Another Record? Buy a 57 Chevy and make me happy.
Price-Cost=Profit Suzy no problem there. But in H-D's case the Cost is only the price of labor and material since any (cough) R&D was paid for back in the 1950's So keep buying the motorcycle equivalent to a 57 Chevy. Please support by daughters' college fund.

KPaulCook 10-16-2003 08:39 AM

Re: I hope so because....
Oh yeah Harley's are so popular in Europe (not)

longride 10-16-2003 08:44 AM

Re: Another Record?
My, how you somehow twisted what I said. Tell me the difference between "products" and "durable goods". I don't think there is muc if any, but go for it. Tell me one dotcom that produced ANYTHING. They were service oriented to provide something that was a pipe dream. Ya think that's why it all collapsed? Duh! Maybe "service" and "products" is lost on you. The dealers make money selling PRODUCTS don't they? Maybe I missed something there. HDFS finances PRODUCTS don't they? Did I miss something there too? I've been watching H-D since 1970, and they NEVER have discounted their products. Not even when they were going out of business in the 80's. Never. That is 33 years on my count. they never got cheaper. If you are waiting for that "cheap Harley" you will be waiting a Looooooooog time.

seruzawa 10-16-2003 08:45 AM

Re: Another bad review for the new Firebolt (reality check)
Heh heh. Japanese bike partisans should be careful about comments about cracking frames. GoldwingGoldwingGoldwingGoldwing.

This clown Kook is simply unbelieveable.

Neal 10-16-2003 08:48 AM

Re: Another Record?
The current P/E ratio for HD stock is 21.00;definitely NOT an overpriced stock.its stock actually went down this year despite incredible sales because people kept predicting 2004 would be a bad year due to post 100 year anniversary sales drops.I sold my little bit of stock(at a good profit) because I bought into this theory.If Harley REALLY produces and sells 318000units in 04 we were all wrong.Their HAS to be an end to this incredible boom sometime,but an end to a boom doesnt mean a bust.Judging by the 30 somethings riding HD's around here I expect HD to remain strong for the foreseeable future

KPaulCook 10-16-2003 08:49 AM

Picture of a cracked motor mount on new Buell

pushrod 10-16-2003 08:54 AM

Re: Picture of a cracked motor mount on new Buell
Yessir, that there is a crack!

Looks to be a metallurgical problem.

The question then becomes, did the engineers at Honda and H-D (sorry, Buell) go to the same school?

seruzawa 10-16-2003 08:55 AM

Re: Another Record?
Ohnonononono.. you have it all wrong. According to MO's resident expert prognosticator only 50-something greyponytailed babyboomers are buying Harleys. All those 30-somethings you see riding them are only figments of your imagination. (sarcasm off).

And you are absolutely right. Then end of the boom doesn't automatically man a bust.

longride 10-16-2003 09:02 AM

Re: Midnight Rider! Was yours the distant thunder heard in the night?
Gimme those Benny Hill reruns any day of the week!

longride 10-16-2003 09:10 AM

Re: Another Record?
The big question is why is he following you around like a lost school girl? I think he's torn between you are Buz. You guys are gonna have to decide who which one gets him.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:17 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.