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Old 03-18-2001, 01:34 PM   #51
Stantheman
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Default Re: Yamaha Officially Releases OW-M1 Details

That's probably not a "pillion" cover. It's most likely an access panel for engine management or onboard telementry and/or data aquisition computer(s).

My $.02.

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Old 03-18-2001, 03:05 PM   #52
Abe_Froman
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Default Where is my mind?

You seem to forget the extra weight of an engine that is nearly twice as large. The 4 stroke would have to make more total horsepower to make up the difference.
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Old 03-18-2001, 03:09 PM   #53
Abe_Froman
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Default As stated earlier....

The "economics" you refer to consist of government declaring 2 strokes illegal. This sounds like bogus economics to me. Take away the restrictions, and watch the 2 strokes fly of the shelves.



P.S. Spare me the talk about importing TZ250's and Aprilas. Of course they're aren't tons of them on the road. I'm not going to buy a bike I have to pay barrels of money to import and skirt the law in order to register it.
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Old 03-18-2001, 03:13 PM   #54
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Default Competitive with who?

Hold a race with top superbike riders (on their bikes) and top GP riders (on their bikes.) Watch GP riders mop the floor with superbikes. Even with no weight restrictions. How hard is this to understand: smaller engine = less weight = more speed?
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Old 03-18-2001, 03:15 PM   #55
Abe_Froman
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Default Not the maufacturers

Sadly, you may be right, although I do not agree that the manufacturers are the ones sinking the two-stroke boat. The environment nazis are.
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Old 03-18-2001, 04:09 PM   #56
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Default Re: Yamaha Officially Releases OW-M1 Details

"we've had some of this information and known of other supposed photos a few days ago..."



We missed this scoop, but not because we didn't know about it. What???



Don't miss the chance to be the first to report on JK's opinion.
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Old 03-18-2001, 11:01 PM   #57
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Default Re: i declare you "completely misinformed"

I don't think that Joe Momma was schooled by anyone yet. By your logic, since the old rules did not allow a displacement advantage, then two strokes have only recently gained a power to displacement advantage over two strokes. I would think that most people know this is not true. And as for the comment about two strokes being limited as to the power they make and four strokes climbing should be true. Think about it. Two strokes lack valves-- this is what makes them so light and simple. This is also what limits performance, since without some kind of valves, intake and exhaust timing are totally static. Four strokes can, have, and will develop technology that allows for valve timing to be changed according to load, elevation, spark quality, RPM, throttle position, and/or rider preference. Many of these developments will have impact on power output. None of these changes will allow a 4 stroke to make equal power at equal displacement, but they should shorten the gap. And since everybody knows that 4 strokes make less power, why are they whining about the displacement advantage?? The only reason to whine is if you think that four strokes can make the same power at 500cc that 2 strokes at 500cc can. Otherwise, the advantage makes sense. You don't see 4 stroke people griping because 2 strokers need twice as many combustion cycles, do you? If you will agree to race equal displacement 4 strokes vs 2 strokes and cut the spark from the 2 stroke every other cycle, then we can have equal displacement and everybody is happy. Until then, the displacement advantage is no advantage, because the 2 strokes already had a combustion cycle per rpm advantage of 2:1.
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Old 03-19-2001, 03:54 AM   #58
hindle
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Default Re: this is old news, but they left out a few things...

Put a 500cc 4-stroke in the duck and see what kind of lap times you get.



Not to mention that the 996 doesn't meet the displacement rules so who cares what kind of laptimes they are getting because they can't race that bike anyway.



Ducati will have to debore or destroke the engine if they want to compete against the smaller 500cc's.



The power 2-strokes will be in the land of the giants in 2002. However I still believe for the first few years the 2-strokes will dominate. Eventually though the 4-strokes will take over. It's just a matter of time. They simply need some development time then get a few top notch riders to switch and before you know it everyone else will follow.
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Old 03-19-2001, 05:03 AM   #59
RobGixxer750
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Default Look at Colin Edwards and Tady Okada's bikes

They had this last year, and they do this year. They use it for electronics.



On that note, anyone noticed on hard lean how you can see up in the left side fairing on the Honda WSB bikes? There appears to be a little box with what looks like 3 cannon style plugs. Kind of like they use in the military a lot, or professional video equipment uses them also. Anyhow, anyone know what that box is? always made me curious.



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Old 03-19-2001, 05:07 AM   #60
Patrick-of-the-Hills
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Default Re: MV Agusta what?

1. Good. I've just missed it before. What is it or where's the FIM site to check it?



2. Inline-4s are a known technology, which is always a good thing in racing, especially with a new formula. They can also be intuitively connected to what's sitting on the showroom floor, which is good for marketing. A V-5 seems like complication for complication's sake, which is not unusual for Honda and thus their perogative, but unless there's some kind of obsessive detail that requires a superspecific volume per cylinder or something, I don't see the advantage, especially considering the extra pumping losses and friction of another cylinder, never mind what kind of vibration this thing will cause (material fatigue, rider discomfort and fade, etc.). And how long will it be before someone can actually buy a V-5 streetbike, and would it ever sell? It's not like NASCAR where slapping the name on is adequate; sportbikes sell in large part because of their direct relation to racing machines. The liter-ish formula will be a great bonus for the street-cred of Open-class bikes (as if it needs it, I know...), but there should be some relation between purchasable product and race runner.



3. Yeah, I was afraid someone would pick that up wrong. The F4 is a gorgeous piece of machinery, for sure. (The finnest? Nah, that'd probably be a Gold Wing with the trunk spoiler and a set of fishtail mufflers.) But it's that Godawful burnt-toast black paint, a la the Yamaha demonstrator (the whole point of bringing it up), that ruins the effect. You don't get the light rolling off the curves, you don't get the historical significance of the red-and-silver, you just get this kind of pseudo-stealth blob thing shooting by. Probably gets hot as a mofo in the summer sun, too.



4. Conservative? I'm not really into progress for the sake of progress, but I did vote for Nader.
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