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longride · 09-08-2003, 06:14 AM

I would add the GoldWing to your list, as well as the first GSXR's that brought the repli-racer to the street. I think most people have tired of the 3 lbs lighter and 3 more horsepower "improvements". Yes, the bikes are certainly better than they were 30 years ago, but how much better are they than 10 years ago? Since the motorcycle of today is better than 99.99999999% of the riders, it just isn't getting any better for us, except down at the pub where you can quote the magazine articles. Different would be better, but most companies won't take the chances they did years ago. Sad.

mad1 · 09-08-2003, 01:08 PM

1. I am not a cruiser person - if I was, I wouldn't give a rat's @$$ about the "lamentable state of the sportbike world".

2. I do respect cruisers and 99.999999% of their riders - if you get your kicks out of riding visceral, old-feeling machinery, all the power to you - I'll still wave when I see you coming.

sarnali · 09-08-2003, 02:08 PM

I think the "next big thing" is going to be getting away from gas engines. Sooner or later a new fuel source will be developed and incorporated.

IMHO the biggest improvments in the last 30 years is in brakes, handling, and tires. Aside from the electronics and water-cooling there's not a hell of a lot of differance between a 10, 20 or 30 year old street bike engine and a new one.

The big leap was from pushrod twins to overhead cam 4 cylinders and horizontally split cases. The improvements in horsepower and top speed are really overkill for the street.

boru4761 · 09-09-2003, 03:27 AM

Errr... so where's the R1 MO? It is 9:21 my time which makes it 6:21 your time.

seruzawa · 09-09-2003, 05:34 AM

You got that right, longride. Honda used to be a company that took risks. And sometimes they paid off. The CB750 and Goldwing are prime examples. How about the CBX or the CX500/650 or the V-4s? They had limited success but none of them were failures. I guess that since the old man died the Board runs everything, like Disney. So you get extra caution and repeated formulas. Typical. Oh wait, my mistake. Honda's Big New Idea is the Rune. (snicker)

Yamaha used to come out with new ideas too. Remember the Vison? Now their idea of a revolutionary bike is air-cooled.

Honda and Yamaha (the biggest by far) are the most conservative. At least Kawasaki tries a bit with something like the ZZ1000. It seems that the smaller manufacturers are the most likely to take a risk. Tiny Suzuki offers an entire line of nice V-twins. Honda offers one and can't even make that one go. What a joke.

Count on the really tiny palyers (who can least afford it) to give an alternative. Guzzi, Aprilia, Ducati or Buell is where you need to look. Unless you just want cookiecutteurs.

sarnali · 09-09-2003, 06:10 AM

You forgot Triumph, they're small and reletivly unique, there's not to many companys making triples

Robbed · 09-09-2003, 12:34 PM

Hate to break it to you, but there are larger differences than 0.01%. Most are evolutionary, but all around you can find examples that are as close to revolutionary as any of the bikes you have mentioned. Look at the changes in weight, stock use of slipper clutches, radial brakes, Honda's change of rear suspension mounting location and now the upside down swingarm on the R1. That was a very obvious distinction on the R1, and if you missed it, then you aren't looking very close.

Other changes you might want to note include the frame going over the engine on both the ZX-10R and the new R1. Btw, have you heard any of the old racers mention that most of the Liter Class bikes are good enough off the show room floor to beat the best 500cc GP bikes from 7-10 years ago?

Also, Sport Rider did a comparison of a modified 2000 R1 against a 2003. If the new bike wasn't quite a bit better, the suspension and exhaust changes alone would have made the old bike considerably quicker than the 2003 on the track.

If you want more changes, search on roadracingworld.com for the patent given on the Tularis. It changes the direction of travel for the rear shock in a dramatic way. It will be interesting to see if any major manufacturers follow suit. I have seen this bike in person, but am sure many have not so I will explain a bit. The Tularis is a bike built similar to 500GP bikes, using a Polaris Snowmobile Engine. It is extremely lightweight, which allows it to develop a power to weight close to a liter class bike.

If you add all of this up, it shows there are more changes happening now than before (at least in my opinion), but they are being made by more manufacturers. When everyone works to improve their bike, the changes by any one manufacturer are not as noticeable.

09-08-2003, 06:14 AM	#11
longride Super Duper Mod Man Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Anywhere they let me Posts: 10,484	Re: Is this the new R1? I would add the GoldWing to your list, as well as the first GSXR's that brought the repli-racer to the street. I think most people have tired of the 3 lbs lighter and 3 more horsepower "improvements". Yes, the bikes are certainly better than they were 30 years ago, but how much better are they than 10 years ago? Since the motorcycle of today is better than 99.99999999% of the riders, it just isn't getting any better for us, except down at the pub where you can quote the magazine articles. Different would be better, but most companies won't take the chances they did years ago. Sad. __________________ I'm a knucklehead

09-08-2003, 01:08 PM	#12
mad1 Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 24	Re: Is this the new R1? 1. I am not a cruiser person - if I was, I wouldn't give a rat's @$$ about the "lamentable state of the sportbike world". 2. I do respect cruisers and 99.999999% of their riders - if you get your kicks out of riding visceral, old-feeling machinery, all the power to you - I'll still wave when I see you coming.

09-08-2003, 02:08 PM	#13
sarnali Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,416	Re: Is this the new R1? I think the "next big thing" is going to be getting away from gas engines. Sooner or later a new fuel source will be developed and incorporated. IMHO the biggest improvments in the last 30 years is in brakes, handling, and tires. Aside from the electronics and water-cooling there's not a hell of a lot of differance between a 10, 20 or 30 year old street bike engine and a new one. The big leap was from pushrod twins to overhead cam 4 cylinders and horizontally split cases. The improvements in horsepower and top speed are really overkill for the street.

09-09-2003, 03:27 AM	#14
boru4761 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Harrisburg, PA Posts: 406	Re: Is this the new R1? Errr... so where's the R1 MO? It is 9:21 my time which makes it 6:21 your time.

09-09-2003, 05:34 AM	#15
seruzawa The Toad Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: 8501 ft. Posts: 17,400	Re: Is this the new R1? You got that right, longride. Honda used to be a company that took risks. And sometimes they paid off. The CB750 and Goldwing are prime examples. How about the CBX or the CX500/650 or the V-4s? They had limited success but none of them were failures. I guess that since the old man died the Board runs everything, like Disney. So you get extra caution and repeated formulas. Typical. Oh wait, my mistake. Honda's Big New Idea is the Rune. (snicker) Yamaha used to come out with new ideas too. Remember the Vison? Now their idea of a revolutionary bike is air-cooled. Honda and Yamaha (the biggest by far) are the most conservative. At least Kawasaki tries a bit with something like the ZZ1000. It seems that the smaller manufacturers are the most likely to take a risk. Tiny Suzuki offers an entire line of nice V-twins. Honda offers one and can't even make that one go. What a joke. Count on the really tiny palyers (who can least afford it) to give an alternative. Guzzi, Aprilia, Ducati or Buell is where you need to look. Unless you just want cookiecutteurs. __________________ http://www.badmovies.org/movies/deadalive/ I kick @ss for the Lord!

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09-09-2003, 06:10 AM	#16
sarnali Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,416	Re:Hey!! You forgot Triumph, they're small and reletivly unique, there's not to many companys making triples

09-09-2003, 12:34 PM	#17
Robbed Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 8	Re: Is this the new R1? Hate to break it to you, but there are larger differences than 0.01%. Most are evolutionary, but all around you can find examples that are as close to revolutionary as any of the bikes you have mentioned. Look at the changes in weight, stock use of slipper clutches, radial brakes, Honda's change of rear suspension mounting location and now the upside down swingarm on the R1. That was a very obvious distinction on the R1, and if you missed it, then you aren't looking very close. Other changes you might want to note include the frame going over the engine on both the ZX-10R and the new R1. Btw, have you heard any of the old racers mention that most of the Liter Class bikes are good enough off the show room floor to beat the best 500cc GP bikes from 7-10 years ago? Also, Sport Rider did a comparison of a modified 2000 R1 against a 2003. If the new bike wasn't quite a bit better, the suspension and exhaust changes alone would have made the old bike considerably quicker than the 2003 on the track. If you want more changes, search on roadracingworld.com for the patent given on the Tularis. It changes the direction of travel for the rear shock in a dramatic way. It will be interesting to see if any major manufacturers follow suit. I have seen this bike in person, but am sure many have not so I will explain a bit. The Tularis is a bike built similar to 500GP bikes, using a Polaris Snowmobile Engine. It is extremely lightweight, which allows it to develop a power to weight close to a liter class bike. If you add all of this up, it shows there are more changes happening now than before (at least in my opinion), but they are being made by more manufacturers. When everyone works to improve their bike, the changes by any one manufacturer are not as noticeable.