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Old 02-11-2003, 11:02 AM   #21
JohnGeisz
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Default Re: Thanks for the Additional Information

You ask interesting questions, and I can tell you, the people were doing little more than sharing that kind of info.



You're also exactly right, they have no way to fight anybody.
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Old 02-11-2003, 11:06 AM   #22
TatdNPrcd
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Default Re: Yamaha Shuts Down, Then Licenses To, FZ-1 Site

That's all well and good longride but it seems to me you're missing something. The problem was with copyrighted material.



As a photographer who posts copyright protected images, if I were to find someone stealing my images and reselling them then I might first send a cease-and-desist letter and follow it up with the same action Yamaha took. As many in my field have found out the cease-and-desist rarely gets any attention however so often the first letter that goes out is not from the owner of the property but from the attorney representing the owner. It seems to get more action.



I had a model I used for a shoot take the images I provided her for her portfolio and started selling them on her site. In that case all I had to do was remind her that I had retained ownership per the model release and she took them down.



Knowing the rest of the story certainly provides a better understanding as to the action by Yamaha.

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Old 02-11-2003, 11:09 AM   #23
JohnGeisz
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Default Re: Defending Yamaha

This guy you're talking about is only an irrate poster, not the subject of anything. (and one who gets irrate often)



This thread is really screwed up.
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Old 02-11-2003, 11:14 AM   #24
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Default Re: Yamaha Shuts Down, Then Licenses To, FZ-1 Site

First, the question of this site selling anything is in question. Second, you somehow managed to remind a person that made you money. The FZ1 site makes Yamaha money. They went for the throat and I believe got caught in the blowback. I'm sure they got plenty of love letters over their little power play. The only people interested in their $60.00 manual already bought an $8,500.00 motorcycle. I'm not sure they did the smartest thing in the world here. KPaul is 100% in Yamaha's corner, so that should give you an indication they screwed up.
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Old 02-11-2003, 11:15 AM   #25
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Default Re: STRANGE THAT MT POST GOT DELETED, M.O.

Thanks goosman, but it's totally gone. I think it just got slammed out when new versions of the story were coming out.
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Old 02-11-2003, 11:19 AM   #26
JohnGeisz
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Default Re: Yamaha Shuts Down, Then Licenses To, FZ-1 Site

Now that's perfect logic. LOL.



I'm afraid to say, but I did get Kpauls last point, but the information here is about as clear as cottage cheese.
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Old 02-11-2003, 11:26 AM   #27
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Default Re: Yamaha Shuts Down, Then Licenses To, FZ-1 Site

First of all, where did you hear that the site was selling copyrighted material? As a member of said forum, I have never seen any manuals or any other copyrighted material for sale.



Second of all, the "ranter" was not the owner of the site, just a member of the message board "ranting".



As far as usage of copyrighted material, if seems to me that the other messages regarding fair use spoke pretty well to this issue.



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Old 02-11-2003, 11:26 AM   #28
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Default Re: Yamaha Shuts Down, Then Licenses To, FZ-1 Site

Had she asked for permission and given me credit I would have handled it differently thatÂ’s for sure. However she had represented them as if she were the owner and offered nothing for consideration. Not good.



Your final point is well taken and certainly worthy of further research.

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Old 02-11-2003, 11:27 AM   #29
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Default Re: Thanks for the Additional Information

Banda



You raise some good points. I am not a copyright law specialist so do not intend to argue the fine points of "Fair Use."



If they were taking information (ie specs) and creating a new document, I would not object at all -- especially if they added their own content. BMW sites (and I am sure others as well) do that (see the post below) apparently with no objections from BMW. I probably would not object to selected, very limited illustrations or even entire pages being posted so long as it was for free use by readers of the site. Doesn't sound like that is what was going on here, though.



If they were printing copies of Yamaha manuals to paper, and selling them, would you make the same arguement?



If I were to write a Finance textbook (argueably not a work of fiction), would you argue that someone has the right to scan it and burn cds to sell in competition with my publisher? If someone is foolish enough to steal my concepts and ideas and put them into his own words, he can go for it.



A shop manual is every bit as much an item of intellectual property as is the latest Grishom novel and the copyright holder is every bit as entitled to protection.
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Old 02-11-2003, 11:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: Yamaha Shuts Down, Then Licenses To, FZ-1 Site

First of all I must say I am a little disappointed in MO. My subscription is up for renewel and I am not sure if I will do so.

Being a FZ1 owner I have never seen anyone selling a cd of the owners manaul on on any of the sites in question. All they are is a group of motorcycle enthusiasts that want to help one another discuss mods, issues, ect. One of the reasons I bought the FZ1 was two modify it. Like the one you at MO did. Where is this going to end? Are they going to shut down E-Bay as well for selling manauls on cd? I also must say to Yamaha if this practice keeps up I will not buy another one! Snack

P.S. How many of you guys at MO have MP3s of music that you downloaded from kaaza?
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