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Old 01-09-2002, 08:00 AM   #1
tbuse
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Default Re: Yamaha to list on NYSE?

The economic slow down isn't just confined to the USA. Japan had been having some tough economic times even before 9/11. It should be interesting to see what effect the economy will have on Japanese bike prices. As the conglomerates have to tighten belts across the board, will they be able to keep the costs down? The Suzuki-Kawisaki deal is evidence of this problem. I believe you will see a reduction of the number of types of bikes offered by the big four in reaction to the economic slow down. They will no longer be able to produce bikes that sell in small numbers.
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Old 01-09-2002, 08:49 AM   #2
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Default Re: Yamaha to list on NYSE?

How the world turns. When I was young the Japanese were brash and ****y. Making billions and laughing at the rest of the world. We all needed to "adopt" their business model or die. Harley was going under and the Japanese knew why. Poor quality and an inferior engine design. 20 years forward and 3/4 of the Japanese motorcycles are using that "inferior" engine design and they are the ones hurting. Now they need our help to bail em out. How the mighty are falling.
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Old 01-10-2002, 12:30 AM   #3
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Default Re: Yamaha to list on NYSE?

What an ignorant statement. Brash, ****y? What in the world validates that comment. If you really knew anything about, or knew any Japanese, you would have a hell of a time making such a generalized negative statement. Indeed, there was a lot of pride in their economic accomplishments - you brand as brash and ****y - while American industry turned out inferior products.



So Yamaha want to go public on the NYSE and you call it a bailout. No one is forcing you to buy their stock, but I'm sure plenty of other people will. Harley got the bailout, just like Chrysler got one during the 1980s. In fact, Harley turned down an offer by Honda for financial assistance at that time. The Japanese were worried about the only remaining American motorcycle manufacturer going under due to competition.



Besides, Yamaha and Honda are not in a lot of trouble - Suzuki and Kawasaki are another matter.



As to their business model, we studied it with several influencial American businessmen, and especially professors of management, advocating the adoption of some of their practices - they didn't try to force it on us, but did use similar practices in companies owned by them that operate in the US.



The basic fact remains that Japan forced US companies to improve their products or go under. No one wanted to buy the crap they were putting out. The improvements in all motorcycles today is due to the quality control and continual improvement of products advocated by the Japanese.
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Old 01-10-2002, 01:54 AM   #4
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Default Re: Yamaha to list on NYSE?

Poor BigMike can't take the facts I guess so I the "ignorant" will set him straight. The Japanese knew everything that was wrong here and didn't mind DUMPING their "superior" products to the world. Well they are getting beat at their own "business model". The ONLY business model they had was lock up the home product through tariffs, and export your unemployment. Remember the 80's when motorcycle sales took a big $hit? They kept pumping em in here like crazy and had 3 yrs. of unsold motorcycles in the warehouses. No problem. Keep selling em for less till they sell, cause there is NO COMPETITON AT HOME. That is called "dumping" BigMike, and was the most successful business model they ever had. They sold for less here than at home,is ILLEGAL and the best part is THEY STILL DO IT. They took over EVERY market from camaras to cars that way. Combine that with govt. subsidised businesses and a little Washington payola to turn their head and there it is. Perfect "business model" wasn't it? Now they are getting the same treatment from China and Korea and life is starting to suck for them. No more dumping grounds for those "superior" products. So here they come, hoping we can bail em with some much needed cash. Just the tip of the iceberg, and if there is a REAL downturn on the horizon count at least 2 and maybe 3 going south for good. See Mr. "IKnowItAll" if YOU knew the Japanese, you would know this is a BIG face loss to come here for money. By the way, Harley got NO "bailout" from anyone. All they asked is for the Japanese to STOP DUMPING HERE and got a tariff applied. They got NO LOANS from the govt. as Chrysler did, so get your facts straight before calling somone "ignorant". Your myopic view of their so called success is what is biting them in the a$$ right now. They THOUGHT they were superior. Now they know what the REAL reasons for success were.
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Old 01-10-2002, 04:58 AM   #5
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Default Re: Yamaha to list on NYSE?

I bet you've got a "Eat your Import" bumpersticker on your (65% parts from Mexico and Canada) "American" truck.


Are you saying that American industry provided an ounce of competition in any of the market segments that Japanese manufacturers took over in the 70's? Did Kodak make a camera that could compete with Nikon? Did Harley Davidson make a dirtbike that could compete with Yamaha? Did Timex make a watch that could compete with Seiko? Did Quasar make a TV that was better than a Sony? Did AMC make better cars than Toyota?


Think back to the 70's. Americans didn't buy Japanese products because they were cheap. They bought them because they were higher quality products. Ranting about "dumping" is what losers do when they have no hope of competing.
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Old 01-10-2002, 06:07 AM   #6
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Default Shareholders have influence

If they did list, I'd sure as hell buy some. I can think of no greater pleasure than penning a letter to R&D saying:



"Where the hell is the new V-MAX?



Love,



your SHAREHOLDER"



Bill R

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Old 01-10-2002, 07:49 AM   #7
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Default Re: Yamaha to list on NYSE?

"I bet you've got a "Eat your Import" bumpersticker on your (65% parts from Mexico and Canada) "American" truck."



Well you lost that bet. Try again



"Are you saying that American industry provided an ounce of competition in any of the market segments that Japanese manufacturers took over in the 70's? Did Kodak make a camera that could compete with Nikon? Did Harley Davidson make a dirtbike that could compete with Yamaha? Did Timex make a watch that could compete with Seiko? Did Quasar make a TV that was better than a Sony? Did AMC make better cars than Toyota?"



I never said any of those things, because none of them are the points I made. If you would like to talk specific industries then I can do that too. Just name one and lets talk.



"Think back to the 70's. Americans didn't buy Japanese products because they were cheap. They bought them because they were higher quality products. "



Wrong #2, they bought em becuase they were CHEAP. That and they had tons of small cars which were fuel efficient when gas prices tripled in 1974. Now that the price evened out their market share is declining all over the world. Did Tmex get to sell in Japan tariff free? Did Kodak put their camaras in Japan markets? Did Quasar have a Japanese distribution network? No to all those questions quiz kid. They weren't allowed or tariffed out of the market. Why are the Japanese scared? Aren't they STILL better products? If they are, then why aren't they GAINING market share? Isn't Harley STILL making crap? Aren't they STILL overpriced? Why are they making record profits while the others lose money? Harleys sell for about 35,000 there because of tariffs. Wonder how many Japanese motorcycles would get sold at that price? Maybe one, to you I think. It would go next to your Japanese wonder vehicle that has the "Ride rice" sticker on the bumper.



"Ranting about "dumping" is what losers do when they have no hope of competing."



You mean the ranting the Japanese are doing now against China and Korea?? I agree 100%

The tears haven't yet hit full swing from them. They are getting their own tactics used against them and here comes the tears. The times they are a changin'
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