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bigfoot 05-01-2001 03:37 PM

Re: World Superbike vs. Formula 1
Reading this story reminded me of an article I once read in Car and Driver magazine, so I went into my collection and pulled out the December 1996 issue. C&D and Cycle World did a comparo test on a Dodge Viper GTS and a Yamaha YZF1000 where they evaluated them in different performance tests. In all the straight line tests, the Yami smoke the Viper (no surprise) with a 1/4 mile of 10.4 @ 132 mph versus a 12.3 @ 115. The same results resulted in top gear 50-70 mph (3.0 s vs. 10.8) and braking from 70-0 (154 ft vs. 172). The Viper redeemed itself on the roadcourse, however. The editors chose a 55 mile section of the Angeles Crest Highway where the car and bike made seperate timed runs. The Viper beat the YZF by 12 seconds and averaged 3.2 mph faster. They also used the 2.5 mile Willow Springs for more testing. Result: Viper, 1:33.8; Yamaha, 1:36.3. The Yamaha used race compound tires while the Viper used Michelin Pilot DOT tires. A couple of interesting notes about the race course was that the Viper hit 138 mph at the end of the 1/2 mile straight vs. 134 on the bike, and car was quicker from 100-120 mph (2.3 vs 2.6) than the bike. The test was conducted by the editors of the respective magazines, Csaba Csere for C&D and Brian Catterson for CW. Of course the biggest performance gap was in the price; the Viper costs more than 7 times the $9799 for the Yamaha.

I think that the bottom line is that the car's prodigious traction inspires much more confidence in its driver especially on public roads, and its more aerodynamic design gives the car better acceleration at high speeds.

hola 05-01-2001 04:07 PM

Re: World Superbike vs. Formula 1
Damon Hill started out racing motorcycles... and when a TV host asked him what car he would like to own, his reply was "you mean, what bike?"

gpfanatic21 05-01-2001 04:58 PM

Re: World Superbike vs. Formula 1
I have that magazine too. Sure that YZF1000R got the paint sucked off it on the road course. The best lap time it posted was a 1:36.3. Heck, the thing weighs over 500 lbs with fuel, has a low-tech chassis, and the muffler drags in right-hand corners. I'm not saying it's not a good bike, it's just that sportbikes have progressed so much even since then that the lap times around Willow have dropped like 10 seconds! Motorcyclist, Sport Rider, Cycle World, etc. have recorded 1:26s on R1s, GSX-R1000s and 750s, and even R6s. I challenge any Viper, Corvette Z06, Mustang Cobra R, even a Ferrari 360 Modena to beat a 1:26 at Willow Springs.

The Viper's aerodynamics are not what allowed it to accelerate harder at high speed. It was the 450 horsepower under the hood compared to the 127 that the YZF was putting out. Ford Focuses (Foci?) are pretty aerodynamic, but you won't see any of them closing the gap on an SV650 above 100 mph.

The car's main advantage at Willow was on the brakes going into turn 9. Trail braking in a car is much less sphincter clenching than on a bike, since there is no danger of falling out of the car when the front wheels lose grip. For that matter, there is way more grip in the front end of the car anyway, which allows more forces to be applied. I.E.: you can brake way harder while turning in a car than on a bike. And in F1, there is the added grip from wings and venturi tunnels which stretch their advantage further.

Here's a great test: Ferrari F1 car vs Reynard/Honda Champ car vs Ford Mustang Cobra R street car vs Honda NSR500 vs Honda RC51 in full Superbike trim vs GSX-R1000 streetbike.

How 'bout it, MO?

gpfanatic21 05-01-2001 05:16 PM

Re: World Superbike vs. Formula 1
Yeah, the cars do a lot of the work for them, but those drivers are still are incredible athletes. Just watch the Japanese GP (F1) from last year. At Suzuka there is a fast left hander at the end of the back straight called 130R. The GP bikes scream through there at 130-140 mph in fourth gear, and it looks frickin' fast on TV. But then you watch an F1 driver like Mika Hakkinen or Michael Schumacher absolutely flick his car in there at 190+ and you realize that these guys have something we don't. These men have some kind of reaction time to flick it in there the same way every lap. And they pull 3-4Gs through the fastest corners, lap after lap. Pushing the limits of any vehicle, whether it's a bike or a car, requires the operator to have extremely sensitive feel for what the machine is doing. That applies to 280lb, 195hp 500GP bikes and 1300lb, 840hp F1 cars. I don't think driving an F1 car requires less skill than riding a Superbike or GP bike, just different skill.

floundericiousFL 05-01-2001 05:40 PM

Re: World Superbike vs. Formula 1
I think the GP500s made the laps in about 49 seconds at valencia last year! :-O

Bikes may be slower INTO a turn, but damn do they launch faster out of it ;)

suicyco 05-01-2001 06:08 PM

Re: World Superbike vs. Formula 1
Damon Hill rode bikes before he started racing cars

CarsSuck 05-01-2001 08:33 PM

Yeah, but when do you see...
a Formula 1 driver take a GP bike out for a spin? I don't know, maybe they do and I just haven't heard of it. I've heard of GP racers being offered the opportunity to take F1 cars for a spin though, several times. In fact, one of them spun a car I think. Sure, it obviously takes skill. It's a lot of power to control. But you don't steer it with your body, and you're still sitting in a chair. I wouldn't expect any motorcycle racers to just jump into cars and be able to be competitive--just like THERE'S NO WAY a car driver can jump on a bike and not be lapped by backmarkers unless he was previously a motorcycle racer. There are probably lots of GP racers who would suck at ping pong too, because it's a whole different skill. I do have to take a slight offense to the salary comment--I really don't see what his salary has to do with anything--I'm sure Tiger Woods makes lots of money too but golf still isn't a real sport. Sure I respect F1, I even like it--but compared to motorcycle racing? No way. Your Schwantz quote basically says that being competitive with a car depends more on the car, compared to motorcycle racing where it's more of the rider. Think about what he's really saying there. F1 drivers just as incredible as motorcycle racers? Sure. Whatever.

echo 05-01-2001 08:42 PM

Re: World Superbike vs. Formula 1
Of interest may be ?

Troy Bayliss a 1'33'' lap of Philip Island in the recent sbk race qualifing on a dry track on the sat

Cars competing in our production based V8 supercar series ran 1' 34''s in qualifing and 1'32 in a top ten shoot out which is the same format as super pole were bayliss managed a 1'33''.576''' in the weather

these cars are well modified and run imported small block chevy engines in the general motors holden for example .On the same track .

echo 05-01-2001 08:52 PM

Re: World Superbike vs. Formula 1
bayliss and corser both lapped @1'33''s in practice for Philip Island while our production racing cars the V8supercars (similar to Nascar) lap@1'34''s but run

1'32''s in a super pole style shoot out

spindizzy 05-01-2001 11:19 PM

Re: World Superbike vs. Formula 1
To be exact the lap record (set in 1999 - the weather has been bad for the last 2 years) was 1:33.019 by Troy Corser. With decent weather it would have dropped in to the low 32's or possibly the high 31s.

Which is the other thing to remember about laptimes - unless they're taken on the same day at the same time they are pretty meaningless except as a rough guide. Also the Australian V8 Supercars are expensive pure race cars with little semblance other than body to race cars. GTP (GT Production)cars would be the closest to superbikes or maybe supersport if you wanted to give the cars a chance.

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