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Old 05-22-2003, 06:44 AM   #11
dnakase
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Default Re: FIM Suggests Rule Change Needed

I think social Darwinism has been working well so far. If you're fresh off the MSF course and can handel an R1 fine. The only modification I'd make is a mandatory organ donor program for anyone who is allowed to drive, 2 or 4 wheels.
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Old 05-22-2003, 06:49 AM   #12
nokneedragin
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Default Re: FIM Suggests Rule Change Needed

This is one of the oldest problems in motorcycle racing. If all displacements are equal, then the 4 cyl (5 in GP) make more power, then the 2 cyls are at a disadvantage. So they try other things, like restrictors in WSBK, or weight restrictions based on number of cyls (like GP). IMO the rules in the AMA need to go more toward the GP way. They could even have different weights for different displacements (but unobtainium is hard to come buy for the privateers). I'd like to see different type of bikes go at it, each having its own advantage at different parts of a track.

I hated watching the vtwin advantage in WSBK, but the original rules where based on the possible technology of the time, and the tech caught up and burried them.



Itis the cunundrum of balancing power output, weight, engine configuration and somehow geting the most competitive, entertaining, and varried racing.
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Old 05-22-2003, 06:55 AM   #13
rsheidler
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Default Re: FIM Suggests Rule Change Needed

Within the level of tuning currently allowed in AMA and BSB (which is what FIM seems to be suggesting for WSB) the circa 150 hp production bikes are boosted to probably over 180hp. I suspect that over time, if the WSB follows this path, the factories will produce bikes which can be tuned to produce 200hp, but what they produce for the street will be based on what will sell -- especially the Japanese manufacturers are oriented to selling bikes in large numbers, not a small number of race bikes.



Already the open class bikes are utilizing electronically managed torque profiles (once they have electronic ignition and efi, that is the logical next step) that can adapt torque curves to what gear you are in etc in order to make a 150, or even 200 hp street bike reasonably tractable on the street.



I understand that already the gixxers in AMA and WSB are using this technology on the race track to give a managable power curve, which is more important than absolute power.



As someone else pointed out, we have 500-600 hp performance luxury cars that can be driven around Beverly Hills by Yuppie lawyers, in part because the manufacturers have found ways to tame this power.



Cheers

Bob
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Old 05-22-2003, 08:46 AM   #14
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Default Any MCN Subscribers Here?

>>it might even force Ducati into creating a V-4 streetbike<<



MCN's web site has a teaser about an article in its print version on a supposed plan to introduce a V4 Ducati for the street. Does anybody get the print issue? Curious to see if there is any solid info or just more idle speculation.



Bob
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Old 05-22-2003, 09:00 AM   #15
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Default Graduated Licenses

Without getting into the question of whether new riders should be required to do an "apprenticeship" on a small and/or low-power cycle for some time before getting a regular license, I think a very good case could be made for the serious performance bikes -- perhaps to be able to ride any bike with over X hp (perhaps 125?) a rider must show proof of having satisfactorily completed some type of advanced skill course (MSN Advances Course, Pridmore, Code etc class). Maybe the criteria should be weight/hp rather than just hp to distinguish the GoldWing types from the GSX-R 1000s.



Regards

Bob



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Old 05-22-2003, 09:55 AM   #16
KPaulCook
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Default Keep it simple stupid

I have a sign that says "Keep it simple stupid" in my office. It great to hear "Superbike rules must be more simple and less expensive, like the Superbike rules in force in the United States, Japan or Great Britain." I would love to see four international classes MotoGP, Unlimited CC production based bikes , 1000 CC production based bikes, and 600 CC production based bikes.

Forget 2 strokes in road racing. Perhaps the production bike classes would settle on inline 4s but that would be only because of the production advantages they entail. However, as long as MotoGP is around in its current form innovation will survive and you will see V-5s, inline 4s, triples, etc. Maybe boxers 4s and 6s will be produced. The minute you go to a NASCAR "stock" car thing complicated rules, restrictor plates, even fairing regulations, then things get boring.

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Old 05-22-2003, 10:01 AM   #17
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Default V-Twins suck but V-4s are sexy. How V-4s are like women

I always hated V-Twins cause I hate asymetry. I think V-Twin came about cause it sit the best in the bicyle frames of early Harleys. To me a V-Twin with one long pipe and one short pipe is like a women with one boob. Now a V-4 is symetric, sexy and has potential.. Now if I could just convince my wife on the VFR.
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Old 05-22-2003, 10:49 AM   #18
Brent_Meeker
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Default Re: FIM Suggests Rule Change Needed

Each rule change over the past 20 years has been made to encourage a particular engine configuration. AMA SBK allowed 1000cc twins against 750cc fours to encourage Harley. WSBK did the same to encourage Ducati. MotoGP allowed 990cc 4-strokes against 500cc 2-strokes to encourage 4-strokes.



The problem is that they've always upped the displacement of the engine they wanted to encourage instead of reducing that of the currently dominant design. And they upped it too much so it became dominant. They should pay attention to basic engineering. A long time ago it was noted that theoretically (4-stroke) engine power is more nearly proportional to total piston area than displacement. If they had paid attention to that they would have allowed 944cc twins against 750cc fours. Or 800cc fours against 1000cc twins.
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Old 05-22-2003, 11:03 AM   #19
rsheidler
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Default Re: V-Twins suck but V-4s are sexy. How V-4s are like women

Each to his/her own opinion, but KPaul, if you say that "V-Twins suck" and "V-4s are like women," does that not imply that you prefer to be sucked by men rather than women, and if so, how does your wife feel about that?



Aside from a few Harleys, how many V-Twins have one short and one long pipe? Oh, and I suppose you would stop loving your wife if she had a mastectomy?



Since cylinders are commonly refered to as "jugs" that would imply that a twin would compare to a "normal" woman with two tits, while a four would be like a woman with 4 tits -- like I say, different strokes



Cheers

Bob
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Old 05-22-2003, 11:39 AM   #20
Buzglyd
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Default Re: V-Twins suck but V-4s are sexy. How V-4s are like women

I'm still trying to figure out how twins are asymmetrical.



Whether it's 90 degree, 45, or boxer, they're all pretty damn symmetrical.
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