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-   -   Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe (http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/triumph-news/474-triumph-gets-fixed-maybe.html)

Lincoln 04-04-2001 07:04 AM

JUST PERPETUATES THE IMAGE OF LOUSY BRITISH ENGINEERING
 
how could they release the bike in that unfinished state?

blip 04-04-2001 07:28 AM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
I didn't think the EFI was all that bad. I've ridden much worse systems: the early FI Buells were horrid, and the new Buells are as bad or worse than the TT.



I guess Triumph's long history holds them to a higher standard...

crash13 04-04-2001 07:36 AM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
I own two triumph sprints, an ST and RS both have spot on injection. I have also ridden the TT with 3 different maps all of which are substandard in my opinion. Does anyone know what the separation implications of Sagem and Triumph will be on the other models that work so well?



crash

dirtybmxr 04-04-2001 07:40 AM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
The standard to which they are being held to is that of their competition, which Buell is not. The FI on the TT needs to be at least as good as the Honda and Suzuki if they are going to pull any market share from them. A sport bike whose throttle can not be opened mid corner at a reasonable pace is completely useless.

a929rrrider 04-04-2001 07:44 AM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
Kinda like a Harley you can only polish a turd so much, but it is still a turd. Go buy a Honda F4i if you want a clean bike with good fuel injection

dickdastardly 04-04-2001 07:49 AM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
sod off, ya bloody wanker.....

TitaniumCanoe 04-04-2001 08:11 AM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
Based on my experience, street bike fuel injection is not up to par with carbs yet. I have owned a couple of BMW's and a Honda CBR929 with FI. My most recent carb bike was a Yam R6 which was perfect.

john 04-04-2001 08:12 AM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
not quite buddy, i give triumph much respect for trying to use FI on a 600 from the get go. FI is much harder to sort out on small displacements, which is why even the japanese have waited so long to do it. I think triumph will find out that just maps won't solve their problems, and that a cylinder head tweaking is in order.



Triumph does, however lose some respect from me for not getting on the ball quickly enough to do EVERYTHING they can to save themselves from the verbal assault they have recieved b/c of the FI problems.



I dont know what Sagem was, or was not doing to help, but every other bike they put it on has seemed to do well.

XS 04-04-2001 08:34 AM

Injection
 
Help! I own a 955i Daytona and just recently installed the high pipe, took it to the dealership and now the bike detonates badly (3k - 4k rpms) and lost low end power compared to prior new exhaust system. Does this sound normal? I need advice from someone whose 955 engine is running well.

ollie 04-04-2001 08:44 AM

Re: Early release?
 
Let's see... Q1-2001 ended on March 31st. Do you think profits and shareholders might've had anything to do with it? I'm not condemning, just enlightening on the way large companies usually work.

biker_911 04-04-2001 08:44 AM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
I've got a 2000 Triumph Sprint ST, and the injection is perfect. Starts exactly the same way whether hot or cold, and has never given me a problem. In addition I get between 49 and 53 mpg all the time. It's a shame that Triumph couldn't have done as well on the TT600.

DrEvil 04-04-2001 09:00 AM

Re: JUST PERPETUATES THE IMAGE OF LOUSY BRITISH ENGINEERING
 
The British have been having electrical problems since the early 1900's. Its a good thing there country is small so they dont have far to walk when there products fail. p.s Lucas electronics, know as "the prince of darkness!!!"

Joe_Momma 04-04-2001 09:16 AM

you are right Brent
 
MAN, you are right Brent, Buell Says the FI was supposed to be correct with last years model X1, but I rode a friends bike and It had pull EXCEPT in the Midrange.... What's the deal with that? As much displacement as it has and as long as the stroke is, where is the midrange torque????

HankMurphy 04-04-2001 09:16 AM

If You Think Triumph Has Problems...
 
...just wait until the EPA or CARB mandate EFI for *all* motorcycles!



Along with some other posters, I have an 885cc Triumph (Tiger) and the EFI is fine. Other than that problem of keeping the front wheel on the pavement...



But the handwriting is on the wall. At the moment, 2-strokes are falling to smog restrictions, even off-road. Carburetors will be the next victim. At that point, the TT600 is going to look good, even in its current state. (Many TT600 riders are wondering what the fuss is about, anyway.)



However, this sounds like a problem with a French software company's responsiveness, not a basic flaw in the TT600. But I guess some people will always denigrate Triumphs...until they ride them.

Patrick-of-the-Hills 04-04-2001 09:40 AM

Re: JUST PERPETUATES THE IMAGE OF LOUSY BRITISH ENGINEERING
 
Q: Why do the English drink warm beer?



A: Because they have Lucas refrigerators!

MoMo 04-04-2001 09:52 AM

sell it
 

richardr6 04-04-2001 09:57 AM

Re: If You Think Triumph Has Problems...
 
Sounds like Triumph needs to change CARB supply companies. As much as we pay for these bikes off the showroom floor, and how poor that all hold in retail prices. They all need to have flawless Carbs

Hager 04-04-2001 10:13 AM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
Actually, I did buy an F4I, but thanks for the advice.



For those who are making fun of Lucas electronics, here's some more fun for you. Sagem is partly run, organized, or owned by Lucas electronics. I'm not sure which, but they're part of it.



As far as the TT600, it's a great bike, just read the handling quotes. Having owned a 97 T595 Daytona, they'll have it fixed sooner or later. I bought the F4I because I didn't want to wait a year again before I could enjoy the bike.



I read in a review for the NEW 955i Daytona they were using Keihin Fuel Injection. It makes sense they'll be the new FI suppliers for Triumph

Shaft 04-04-2001 10:15 AM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
You're just flat out ignorant. The jap bikes are the best, end of subject.

Millencolin 04-04-2001 10:21 AM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
I don't see how anyone would want a triumph anyway (other than patriotism for the english 'chaps'). It doesn't seem to do anything better than the jap bikes. If you want a comfortable and very streetable 600 get the kawi, if you want a racebike, get the R6 or GSXR, if you want a compromise, get the F4. Even with perfect FI would the triumph honestly be as good as the japanese bikes? Personally I doubt it.



Don't get me wrong, i don't think the TT is <b>too</b> far behind, but it's not quite on the same level as the Japanese bikes is it? Hopefully in a few years (maybe as soon as next year?) they can really get it together. I would love to see some top-level equipment from somewhere besides Japan or Italy. It would be awesome if some american company started producing competitive sportbikes.

Kiwi 04-04-2001 10:24 AM

Re: JUST PERPETUATES THE IMAGE OF LOUSY BRITISH ENGINEERING
 
Judging by this guy's grammar and spelling if he'd programmed the fuel-injection the bike wouldn't run at all!



p.s. Sagem is french.



p.p.s. Does this mean the 2001 TT600 is no better than the 2000?

Grappelli 04-04-2001 10:51 AM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
Now there's a wide ranging statement.. do you think no-one else should try?

minime 04-04-2001 10:58 AM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
Keihin WAS mentioned this morning, but nothing is confirmed as of yet. Good guess :()

Grappelli 04-04-2001 11:03 AM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
One of the great things about the Triumphs up until now has been the three cylinder engines, which give the sort of torque of twins and a lot of the smoothness and revability of a four pot. I think it's a real shame that they seem to be moving to 4pot engines and dropping the triples. However, don't damn all triumphs for one dodgy engine, 'cos you can's say the Speed triple, the Sprints or the Tiger are anything other than excelent, and the new Daytona looks a fun ride...

LimeSqueezr 04-04-2001 11:06 AM

Most often execution not engineering...
 
as in quality control (or the utter lack of it) which plagued the British auto industry for many years. We won't go into why since this isn't a forum for political and social debate. The engineering that went into the design of their vehicles was generally on a par with competitors and in some cases the best especially when price considered. I will only say that while you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, you've got to have some quality control to make a silk purse that's as good as the sow's ear.

Haga 04-04-2001 11:23 AM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
I dynoed my R6 last year and the main jetting was literally 2 spots short of being absolutely perfect. Then again, that whole bike is pretty meticulously put together.

fr21555 04-04-2001 11:26 AM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
Kinda like a Honda rider, trying to stick to a point that has nothing to do with Harley.

AsphaltLake 04-04-2001 11:53 AM

Re: If You Think Triumph Has Problems...
 
Noted your comments viz. EPA and CARB mandates.



You might wish to check out our home page (www.mrf.org). On the left hand menu bar click on position papers. THere you'll find MRF's public comments on EPA's latest bid to impose California standards nationwide on all bikes.



I should also note that many manufacturers are close to or better than California standards without catalytic converters. While a tad dirtier than some, my 2000 Sprint RS performs like a champ ... without a cat.

dirtybmxr 04-04-2001 11:56 AM

Re: If You Think Triumph Has Problems...
 
So we're not allowed to criticize Triumph for selling a bike that works poorly because the FI is outsourced? Gimme a break! Why is the TT going to look good when FI takes over? They already look bad in comparison to the F4i and GSXR, so how is the rest of the world figuring out FI going to help 2001 Triumphs? All I can say is that I am glad that Sagem is out of the picture. Now maybe with a little restyling, and new FI, things will shape up.



ps - I have ridden FI Triumphs (most recently the 955 Daytona) and wish the company the best, but I really think the criticism is fair, for now.

kcobb 04-04-2001 12:07 PM

Trouble for Aprilia Futura?
 
Hmmm, I'm seriously considering a Futura, but I've read it uses Sagem FI also. In two of the reviews I've read, about the only real complaint they have about the bike is jerky throttle response in low speed, 1st gear situations. In one review, they mentioned a German reviewer fell over when trying to do a low speed U-turn. I sure hope Aprilia can figure this one out.


kcobb 04-04-2001 12:12 PM

Re: If You Think Triumph Has Problems...
 
I agree, FI is inevitable. Look, they've had decades to get carbs working right. EFI is new tech for most of these guys. In 5 years, once they get the bugs worked out, it won't be an issue.


XS 04-04-2001 02:34 PM

Re: sell it
 
I guess that'll take care of the problem for sure :)

minime 04-04-2001 03:20 PM

Re: Injection
 
Talk to Mat Capri at www.southbaytriumph.com about your Fi mapping woes.

triumph900 04-04-2001 03:27 PM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
Marvy! Another genius with the world figured out. Do us all a favor, hop on your "jap bike", take a long ride, and keep your ignorant, closed minded opinions to yourself. If you don't like the make, don't buy it! Go find yourself a nice "jap bike" forum and inject pearls of wisdom there. Otherwise,(operative phrase to follow...)SHUTUP AND RIDE!

8inchover 04-04-2001 04:00 PM

955 Daytona has sagem FI!
 
And it runs spot on all the time. Obviously not a problem with sagem all around. Anyone?

Lunatic 04-04-2001 04:08 PM

EPA spec
 
I'd guess that the Tt's run great if tuned out of EPA spec, uch liek the Moto Guzzi Quota which gets horrible reviews of its injection system also. BUT, if you can find a dealer willing to tune them out of EPA spec, they run great. HOwever, this should not be nescessary with EITHER of these bikes.

snickers 04-04-2001 04:13 PM

Re: JUST PERPETUATES THE IMAGE OF LOUSY BRITISH ENGINEERING
 
Having recently completed a project with a lead Electrical Engineer from England, I can completely understand why the fuel injection system is screwed up. Talk about a random approach to engineering!

chainhead 04-04-2001 06:58 PM

Re: Triumph Gets Fixed -- Maybe
 
It should be a comfort to one and all that Lucas no longer makes motorcycle electronics. No, the lions share of their business comes from Airbus. If you look real close on the A340 you can actually see the ziener diode monted on the nose of the plane.

Not_Anonymous_Squid 04-05-2001 12:23 AM

Re: Early release?
 
They have never made a profit and there is only one shareholder (AFAIK). Triumph are not a public company. So think again.

Not_Anonymous_Squid 04-05-2001 12:25 AM

Re: Sagem is French
 
And we all know what they think of the English speaking nations.


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