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Old 01-06-2005, 05:44 AM   #41
seruzawa
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Default Re: The new 680 Triple

I'm not sure how much nostalgia is tied to the old 750 Trident. My teeth are still buzzing from the one I rode in 1972.
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Old 01-06-2005, 05:59 AM   #42
fireworks
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Default Triumph needs focus...

They need to focus on what people love about Triumph's. Take the litre bike comparo. Ranked dead last, but had the most people stating that it (Daytona 955i) was the one that they would spend there money on. The sound of the Triple came up a few times too. Now that is a solid endorsement.



So what did Triumph do? Stop all development of the 995i, as they felt they couldn't compete, and to leverage their 'History' better. Building fast bikes based on triples or parallel twins _is_ their history; but they go and develop the Rocket III instead. They should ditch the cruiser market altogether. They only guys that are really successful in that market is Harley. Being the English Harley Davidson is probably not very smart.



Overall Triumph has been very good at reusing their platforms to create mulitple bikes. The Rocket III doesn't fit this philosophy and might be a strange quirk that small British auto firms seem to have. ( The Caterham 21 is another)



Hopefully, they will come to their senses and just cancel the whole Rocket III program. There is nothing wrong with the classic bike series but they should unify the Daytona's into something like the GSXR series. Seriously fast (and comfortable) triples that come in two sizes. Sportbikes are getting a bit too focused and there seems to be a niche forming for something that is just as capable but more practical, something that Triumph is good at addressing.



They need to clean up the looks of the Daytona's (hiring someone from Aston Martin would be a good start) and then address the ****pit. I think some asthetic clean up would go a long way towards sales of the Daytona's. Their looks have been commented on even on Britian.
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Old 01-06-2005, 06:01 AM   #43
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Default Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

Guys, let's not forget that while the Pres. doesn't set the amount of squandering of "our" tax dollars like the legislature, he does have the power of the veto, which he has used exactly zero times during his tenure. There is plenty of blame to be laid at the feet of all of our elected officials, Bush included. VWW
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Old 01-06-2005, 06:07 AM   #44
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Default Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

"Losing" a million is not a big deal for a company of Triumph's size. Especially considering new models cost amortization, etc. Plus probable jumbo deductibles on the property loss - plus if they are smart (do any Morons think John Bloor is NOT smart?) - they took the opportunity to do some selective upgrades in plant & equipment which would NOT be covered by property insurance.



As for markdowns - a quick look at dealer advertised prices in this area tells me that some of that is dealer specific. If markdowns are a true indicatior of problems - then Honda is near death.



As for the falling dollar, that impacts all of 'em. And besides, methinks Arthur Laffer was mostly correct when he recently opined that the current trade deficit is more linked to capital INFLOWS to this country than us doing too much "wal-marting". And as James Grant (he of Forbes..the inflation hawk) sez - currency holding is the old maid of investing....I've said it before and I'll say it again...the dollar will rise soon...by late this year or early next...then it will fall, then rise and on and on. I'm sure there is a fellow Moron out there who can enlighten us on the available techniques of currency fluctuation hedges that exporters use - I know they exist, but I forget the details....



We sure get sidetracked on Politics, business and Harley vs the world, don't we?



And speaking of business, I saw a fasinating article on Ducati's owner (part owner?) the Texas-Pacific Group. No mention of Ducati - but interesting folks with a real flair for turnarounds.
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Old 01-06-2005, 06:17 AM   #45
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Default Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

Accuse me of defending Bush again and I'll make you ride a 202 Gilera on the ISDT! And I'll cancel your dental insurance before you start, too!
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Old 01-06-2005, 06:25 AM   #46
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Default Re: There Will Wlways Be an England! And, Probably a Tuiumph.

Whaling on the RocketIII is a good metaphor. Maybe Triumph should paint it Sperm Whale White and rebadge it as the "Nantucket Sleigh".
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Old 01-06-2005, 06:50 AM   #47
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Default Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

Triumph is a small motorcycle manufacturing company probably selling only about 20,000 units per year world wide compare that to the Japanese-Yamaha sells 20,000 R6 just in Europe and as such needs to come out with new and edgy products to grow. I own a ST and have test drove the Rocket III and if I was a cruiser guy it would definitely be on my short list of bikes. I wish them all the success in the world.
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Old 01-06-2005, 06:58 AM   #48
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Default Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

I wonder what a 1 million$ is in percent earnings? (We measure EBITDA here).



I have been as thrilled as I have been disappointed in the direction Bloor has taken Triumph. I really wanted to see an evolution Bonneville. There was no engineering reason for not doing it. What they eventually came out with misses the mark. It's not about performance - that hasn't bothered Harley, it is about style.



Bloor wanted to create a new motorcycle company, which he has done well. But, his company is fighting for identity. The problem is that their ties to the past are in name only. The triple motor is nothing like the old motor and same with the twin. Then they come out with a four, which is supposed to compete head-to-head with the Japs?? It didn't. So, the perception is there are 4 major motorcycle manufacturers (Japan) building similar bikes and Triumph, which is clearly always behind. The Japs aren't going to pull Triumph along the way they pull each other along.



What about a niche market? The Speed 3, 4, Rocket III, Bonneville America?



I was hoping for...

1) A good evolution Bonneville, about 400lbs wet and performance on par with the SV650. Bloor, spin-off a Daytona, flat tracker and Jack Pine T100C style enduro from the engine and frame. Create a whole new hobby for the thousands of us out there still riding and wrenching the old bikes. Every Jap bike manufacturer has something similar (SV650, DR400S, F4i etc - take their customers. Something like a cross between the current T100 and the Speed 4. But lose some weight!

2) A Trident roadster (Daytona) like what Kenny Dreer is building with the Norton - he nailed it (if it works). The current Daytona is close, but sounds awful!

3) A touring bike - TR6 Tiger. The Trophy was basically this bike - whatever happened to it?

4) A chopper - how hard is this??? Twin cylinder engine with big chrome exhaust headers sticking right out in front of God and all. Springer front end, hard tail rear end (Harley did this already for you). Just copy the old Triumph chopper look. There should be a zillion of them setting up at all the custom bike shows next to the S and S choppers by now.



Don't worry about performance - the Japs have that locked up. It hasn't stopped Harley. If you can't build on Triumphs reputation and style then you have to compete head-to-head with Japan (Korea, China). If you can't do that then don't bother.



OK, I feel better now.
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Old 01-06-2005, 07:32 AM   #49
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Default Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

Japanese Harley clones sell because they are about 95% of the market. I think there's room in the market for the Rocket. They're not going to outsell Harley, or probably the Japanese either, but I think there's room



I'm probably fairly representitive of a certain segment of serious motorcyclists, late forties, long time rider, steady new bike purchaser, and if I wanted a V-Twin cruiser it'd be a Harley. I have absolutely no interest what-so-ever in Japanese Harley knock-offs. Japanese sportbikes and standards, yes, clones, no.



If I wanted some performance with my "relaxed" riding position that leaves me with, what? a Rocket. See there's the market, other possibles would be the V-Rod, but I don't care for the feet forward position, or the BMW Pheonix, which is "rather weak" or one of the Victory models.



The Victory would be a viable option for a V-Twin, but if I wanted a smoother, more modern engine then the choice is the Rocket. That's why I think the Rocket was and is a good move for Triumph, they're not going to sell them like popcorn, but they should show pretty steady numbers.
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Old 01-06-2005, 07:39 AM   #50
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Default Re: The new 680 Triple

Your focusing on the negitive, my friend. The purple and white Trident was one of the most beautiful bikes ever made.



A modern version of that, along the lines of the Bonnies would put Viagra out of buisness, I'd have to leave my pants unzipped every time I rode it.
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