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Old 01-06-2005, 01:52 AM   #31
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Default Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

One million? Not a big deal. I'll second (or third) the other posters who have also pointed this out. It's probably just a cyclical loss related to new development costs and the aforementioned weaker dollar. It's a cause for minor concern, but certainly not a cause for gloom and doom.

Since we've been so conditioned by public companies and the stock market to think that if a company has a momentary downturn, doesn't show a profit for two quarters in a row or, God forbid, shows a small loss for the year, that the ship is sinking. Please.
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Old 01-06-2005, 01:55 AM   #32
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Default Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

Triumph has probably been a bit marginal for a while now. Lots of competition out there.

Sure, Rocket 3 cost them some, but a manufacturer of sporting motors needs a flagship...something to draw the eye and imagination to their product. Most have one,

this is Triumphs. Sure, people will buy within their niche..but the rocket 3 will draw attention to the Tirumph line...and to that extent is a success.
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Old 01-06-2005, 01:58 AM   #33
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Default Rocket might have a niche

A lot of folks are knocking the Rocket, and I can't say that I have seen one on the street. But I do see a fair number of Valkyries so there does seem to be a market segment for the lumbering- behemoth models.
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Old 01-06-2005, 02:19 AM   #34
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Default Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

Triumph makes some great bikes, but here in the Northeast have few dealers. I'd buy a Tiger in a second but the nearest shop is 50 miles from my houseand hundreds of miles from where I do most of my riding. If they just expand the dealer networks they could do a lot better.
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Old 01-06-2005, 02:28 AM   #35
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Default Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

Gotta give 'em credit for originality. And, the 3rd Rock is supposed is supposed to go and handle really well.

I haven't seen one in person, yet. I'm just hoping its a case of, Substance over Supposition. Otherwise, I'm hoping it comes with an awfully, large tarp.
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Old 01-06-2005, 02:38 AM   #36
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Default Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

The real stat to look for in long term corporate viability is growth in market share. Of course cash flow has to be maintained. Profitability ain't cash flow. This is sort of like calling up your doctor, saying you feel warm and then asking for a diagnosis of what is wrong. You might be catching malaria and you also might be sitting too close to the heater. Neither you nor I will get to talk to the bean counters in the know. Wish Triumph well. But somebody really needs a kick in the seeds for that Rocket III.
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Old 01-06-2005, 02:39 AM   #37
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Default Re: The new 680 Triple

What Triumph could use is another bike that uses the heritage of the name. Give us a razor sharp 750 triple. Cafe style, and the name could be ummmm.........let me see......Trident! Yes, Triumph, give us a bike from back in the glory days and people will respond just like they did to the new Bonneville. Drop the 600 four already and go with this one. Forget the "680" anything. Triumph 750 Trident Triple. Has a ring to it.
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Old 01-06-2005, 03:35 AM   #38
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Default Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

Regarding the 650cc Daytona, the local Triumph dealer stated that this will be replaced next year by the 680cc TRIPLE metioned in a post above. The word is that everything Triumph makes will be either a parallel twin or a triple. I think Triumph learned their lesson.
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Old 01-06-2005, 04:06 AM   #39
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Default Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

$1 million certainly doesn't sound like a lot.

However seeing how discounted triumphs are, how many left overs are on the floor, etc.. does seem a little worrisome.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the Rocket 3. It really seems too far out to be successful over the long run. It is kind of like the Boss Hoss, it is kind of cool but most of us probably don't want one. It will continue to get triumph lots of press but I doubt we'll be seeing a gang of guys riding them in a pack like harleys or supersports.

Aside from the R&D for the rocket 3 no one has mentioned how far out it is manufacturing wise. There were plenty of magazine articles that mentioned that triumph had to build a whole new assembly line that is closer to a car assembly line than a typical bike assembly line since the engine design is so far out. This is probably not the case for bikes like the valkryie or gold wing since they have more cylinders and smaller parts. For example it was mentioned that the Rocket 3s crank, cases, etc.. are so heavy that triumph had to build/buy machines to lift them into place on the assembly line whereas for most bikes they can be moved around by hand. Unless >2 liter bikes become incredibly popular it is hard to imagine how triumph will ever be able recover it's investment in such a specialized factory. Someone like Honda or Kawasaki is so big that they can probably do this and suck up the loss, but then the VTX and the Vulcan 2000 are apparently not as extreme as the Rocket 3?

The Boss hoss of course avoids a lot of this as they just buy the motors pre-assembled and then they are apparently set up to be a niche builder?
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Old 01-06-2005, 04:37 AM   #40
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Default Re: Tax on profits

Triumph motorcycles is a small part of Bloor Holdings overall. Given the tax structure in Britian, being able to show a loss is very favorable in terms of the corporate tax he pays. This is a red herring, and in no way reflects Triumphs viability as a company.

At the Seattle IMS, the Rocket 3's had a pretty steady line of people checking them out, and sales have been strong according to the guys I deal with. I see them on the road from time to time, If I was in the market for a cruiser I'd definately check one out. My tastes run more towards the Bonneville and Thruxton, as befitting an aging cafe` racer such as myself, though I'd find a Tiger hard to resist for all the logging roads around here.

I wouldn't read too much into this guys, new models incure development costs, and John Bloor is no fool. After refocusing the 650 Daytona from direct competittion with the Japanese supersports and more towards a fun middleweight sportbike the pressure's off to upgrade every three months as the competittion does. Reviews are favorable for this bike, and with the rumered 680 in the wings sales should continue to increase.

I feel confident owning a Triumph, my Trophy is proving to be the best bike of the many I've owned and I have every intention of buying another one. Personaly I don't want the same bike everyone else has with the same catalog moto-bling tacked on. If that's what your after there's lots of other choices for you.
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