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Old 10-25-2001, 08:20 AM   #21
jmeyn
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Default Re: Boost King, Eat My Dust

Assuming 215 lb/f of torque, geared for 238 mph top speed, this sucker provides 1350 lb. of thrust to push, say, 600 lb. in 1st gear (assumed 110 mph top) Other figures

Gear Thrust TopSpeed

1 1350 110

2 1100 136

3 925 161

4 800 187

5 700 212

6 625 238

Instant somersaults in the first 5 gears, just twitch the throttle a bit. Or lift your head at 150 in 3rd gear and increase the high drag a tad.



Is this scary, or what?
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Old 10-25-2001, 08:28 AM   #22
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Default Re: Boost King, Eat My Dust

Re. previous post. Yes, I know you can't apply 1350 lb. of thrust to a 600 lb. bike; it'll either flip or smoke its tires. It's the two to one excess of thrust in first gear that makes me wonder how you control all this. In my case, it's easy. I just don't buy one.
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Old 10-25-2001, 08:29 AM   #23
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Default Re: Blip

He's showing off.
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Old 10-25-2001, 08:48 AM   #24
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Default Re: 351 is great... for dyno shootouts

It can smoke its tires in all six gears at any RPM above 1500. What fun....
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Old 10-25-2001, 09:46 AM   #25
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Default supercharger drag is an issue if you're after peak power

If a supercharger gives you 50 additional hp but its drag takes away 10 leaving you with only 40 net extra, where a turbo would give you net 60 extra, you may deem the turbo a better choice. But in my opinion, on a motorcycle, 40 hp and linear throttle is far more important than 60hp and irregular throttle behaviour.



If you think you can build a turbo bike that will yield meaningfully more rear wheel output than a supercharged bike without lag showing up and while maintaining a smooth progressive throttle, you're very mistaken.



The issue in not that there will be lag. Lag by itself is not bad. What is bad about motorcycle turbos is the throttle behaviour. If you're in a corner, leaned over and you get on the gas for the drive out, you don' want the bike giving you more than you want it to. On a turbo bike, you simply don't have such precise control on the engine response. Bikes like the gixxer1k and ZX-12R are already very unforgiving of throttle misapplication. turbocharging them will compound the problem manifold.



No, I remain convinced that turbochargers are ideal for straight line acceleration only. For an all round use motorcycle, a low boost turbo might be OK, but I'll take a supercharger instead. I am not a big fan of superchargers, and on a car, I'll take a turbo over a supercharger most days. but not on a bike.
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Old 10-25-2001, 09:55 AM   #26
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Default Re: Boost King, Eat My Dust

A 230LB G.P. bike with 190 H.P. = 1.21 Lbs/H.P.



A 500LB Streetfighter with 350 H.P. = 1.43 Lbs/H.P.



A 600LB Streetfighter with 350 H.P. = 1.72 Lbs/H.P.



It looks like those power/thrust to weight ratios are already being exceeded, in modern G.P. racing.



We also KNOW that in addition to a greater power to weight ratio, a modern G.P. bike has:

a.) lower parasitic losses in the drivetrain, so it's actually going to put a greater percentage of it's engine's power to the tire.

b.) Has far less inertia to overcome.

c.) Has a peaky two-stroke, instead of tractable four-stroke power delivery.



I'm not saying that it's EASY or PRACTICLE to have a bike producing 2:1 thrust to weight. Just that it CAN be controlled and ridden, in an effective manner.

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Old 10-25-2001, 09:56 AM   #27
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Default Re: Boost King, Eat My Dust

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Old 10-25-2001, 10:18 AM   #28
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Default Re: IT

Ya know, that sounds not un-like the powerband in a two-stroke!... uh-oh... there's that 'dirty' topic again!



The reason I still ride 2-smokers is precisely for the rush at the powerband... I've often wondered if you could duplicate that with a turbo on a 4-stroker... hmmm... sounds like 'yes'?



And yes, whoever was saying that any sudden rush in power might upset cornering, yes... true.. but it is manageable... gotta be very careful w/the throttle. When I've let friends ride my strokers, they always start off and say "hey man.. where's the powwweeeeeRRRRRRRRRRR..OOOHHH SHIIIIII...."...

and this happens invariably while leaned over.. forcing them wide.



Hence, no one gets to ride 'em outside of a big parking lot the first time on.



-James



P.S.: yes, before any 'turbo-bikers' out there tell me that their turbo-gixer-RR-ninja eats two-strokes... fine.. whatever.. I'm just making the point about the 'hit' and what it does in a corner if you're not used to it.
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Old 10-25-2001, 10:22 AM   #29
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Default Re: Boost King, Eat My Dust

What I would like too see is a very light motorcycle that is supercharged. Supercharging could be a good way to make a light motorcycle more powerful, so not only would it have great handiling, but it would be able to power wheelie in 3rd gear.



Maybe a FZR 400 with 140 hp? SV 650 with 120 hp? KTM Duke II with 110 hp?



What the heck, stick that 351 hp snowmobile engine in a YSR 50 frame!!! (OK that's a little much) An RS 50 frame then!!
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Old 10-25-2001, 11:25 AM   #30
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Default turbo is not like 2 stroke

in two strokes you merely have a very steeply climbing power band. On a high boost turbo bike, you have an engine whose off throttle to on throttle behaviour is not satisfactorily predictable and linear. its not about being peaky or not. Its about there being no time gap between when you ask the engine to do something and when it does it. Turbo bikes didn't take off (in sales, I mean) for a very good reason. And that reason is that a turbo bike needs its operator to ride around its imperfect engine response.



turbos are NOT an ideal solution on a motorcycle in tight corners.
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