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Old 10-13-2001, 08:43 AM   #31
CBR1000F
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Default Re: NHTSA releases most recent safety stats

Ditto.
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Old 10-14-2001, 04:55 AM   #32
mandrake_the_mollusk
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Default Re: NHTSA releases most recent safety stats

What all those stats say to me is that odds of staying alive are still pretty damn GOOD for any rider who's sober and has a clue as to what's safe and what's not.
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Old 10-15-2001, 08:10 AM   #33
JohnGeisz
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Default Geographical Factors

Is it just me, or does it look like really flat states like Kansas and Iowa have generally lower rates, and states with "fun" and windy roads like North and South Carolina have higher rates?



I guess single bike accidents are pretty common on challenging backroads OR maybe in flatter states, other drivers can see bikes at greater distances... plus there are fewer urban areas in some of those states. More info would really come in handy.



I just went on a ride with 20 other bikes through some rural twisties and I was awakened to how generally poor peoples' curve techniques were.



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Old 10-15-2001, 11:38 AM   #34
mandrake_the_mollusk
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Default Re: Geographical Factors

You're right the vast majority riders don't know any way to get around curves except slowly, bolt-upright, with white knuckles. And in some cases that's good because they ride bikes you better not try any other way on. But then they get on a road with lots of hotdogs and their ego takes over. I'd be interested to know what % of the accidents in states where they have motorcycle meccas, such as the Blue Ridge Parkway and Deal's Gap, actually involve out-of-state riders who are trying to ride twisty roads they aren't familiar with in a manner way beyond their ability and/or the bike's.



Here in the midwest things are different. The average weekend ride covers a LOT more miles than it does in metro areas because that's mostly all there is to do. That's why cruisers and dressers are mainly what you see there (who wants to crouch over a sportbike across western Nebraska) and it also has something to do with why accidents-per-mile are lower though riding skills are not higher on average I'm sure. On many roads you'd need to be pass-out drunk or doing something pretty crazy to have much chance of crashing. You see some godawful rickety-looking contraptions passing as custom choppers and most of 'em make it home okay somehow. If you want to hone your skills in the twisties though, you have to hunt down the few roads that have real curves to offer. There are some, but most riders don't even know where they are and those of us who do like to keep it that way
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Old 10-15-2001, 03:03 PM   #35
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Default Re: NHTSA releases most recent safety stats

Great. Another useless spew from NHTSA of statistics without meaningful contextual significance. Statistics such as these can (and likely will) be used by government bureaucracies to make decisions that affect all motorcyclists whether they make sense or not.



The time has long passed that an updated study similar to the Hurt Report be compiled. How may new or inexperienced riders are entering the sport each year? What types of bikes are involved in these accidents as a percentage? How much training and experience did the riders have? How much do they really ride? Are there times of year when accidents are more likely to happen? California, Florida and Texas have more accidents than other states, but that's also a function of more riders (and cars/drivers) as well as year round riding. These types of questions can be reasonably answered and all of them need to be applied to any statement of statistics before the numbers really mean anything.



On a related subject, will NHTSA (or can they) do anything about a leading cause of vehicle accidents in general -- inattentive drivers? Not just the cell phone users, but the lady applying her make-up, the guy shaving, the person reading the newspaper or a map, or the group engrossed in conversation. Laws against cell phone use address the issue of what the driver is doing with their hands at the time but that doesn't make them any more attentive. I have seen all of these types of behavior in drivers while riding my motorcycles and while driving my car; they endanger me either way but I'm more likely to be hurt while on the bike.



I'm curious as to how they determine/estimate the miles ridden per year with so many variables. For example, I ride 3-5 days per week, while my neighbor rides 2-3 times per month. How do "they" know that last year I rode over 18,000 miles, but this year I will only ride about 12,000?



Signed,

A VFR guy riding year-round in Texas...



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Old 10-16-2001, 08:12 AM   #36
Abe_Froman
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Default Explanation.....

The reason I suggested that motorcycle riders need to slow down and lay off the booze was because the study showed that motorcyclists have accidents involving speed and alcohol at a greater rate than the rest of the driving public. This means that motorcyclists probably tend to speed more and drink&drive more than the average motorist.
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Old 10-16-2001, 08:50 AM   #37
Abe_Froman
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Default Once again......

Why rail against the SUV? It seems that the only "fad" at work here is hating SUV's. The Suburban, the first and the largest, has been around for several decades. The Ford Bronco came out in the early 70's, if I remember right. The Jeep Cherokee has been around since the early eighties, and the Grand Wagoneer started selling in the seventies. I could list a number of other examples, as well (Range Rover, Blazer, etc.) Before masses of people started buying SUV's, they had v8-powered Caprice station wagon sleds that weigh more than a mid-sized SUV anyway.



It takes no special license to drive a 1-ton crew-cabbed dually pickup, and if anything, I see more and more of those on the road everyday. Everybody has one now. Aren't those more dangerous, since they are significantly larger and heavier than even the largest SUV? What about full-size vans? They've been around for decades too.



I have not witnessed the vastly improved levels of idiocy from SUV drivers that everyone seems to see. It would seem that everyone believes that people are generally good drivers behind the wheel of virtually any kind of vehicle. That is, until they slide into the seat of an "SUV", when a jeckle-hyde transformation takes place and the driver becomes a raving lunatic.
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Old 10-17-2001, 08:47 AM   #38
mandrake_the_mollusk
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Default Re: Once again......

Yes, I think people get a lot more PO'd when they're being tailgated by a Navigator as opposed to a Jetta. And to some extent justifiably when you consider what's going to happen if they get rear-ended by a Navigator as opposed to a Jetta. That doesn't mean people in Volkswagens never tailgate. People driving big SUVs should make a conscious effort to be MORE polite than people in small cars because of the size of their vehicles, but lots of 'em drive exactly the same as they do in the family Civic including squeezing the big beast into parking places made for compacts. Thus they are perceived as rude when in fact they're merely thoughtless. Most of us don't make much of a distinction there, of course.
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Old 10-18-2001, 10:55 PM   #39
luvmyvfr
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Default Even tanks take bullets at angles!

Oh, I totally agree with you, about most head injuries on a bike will be from tumbling/sliding down the road etc, my point is that your helmet will barely protect you if you're sitting on your bike and fall over, let alone travelling 60 mph and going down. You have 2 forces to account for here, you have the speed you're travelling (lateral force) plus the acceleration due to gravity (vertical force, more or less at a rate of 9.8m/s/s) as your head hits the road, granted at an angle, but the angle does not take away from the downward fall in this scenario, but does take some away from the direction you were moving when you went down. All I'm saying is the actual crash protection a helmet provides is just enough to get you from your bike to the ground, not to protect your head from anything you hit off the side of the road, the other guys vehicle, etc.
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Old 10-18-2001, 11:06 PM   #40
luvmyvfr
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Default Lush motorcyclists?

I'm not disagreeing, I just wonder if it isn't so much that motorcyclists dring and drive more than the average motorist (what a terrible stereotype to put out there about ourselves! I've never drank, ever, let alone drink and drive), but that they are killed/maimed/hurt more often when they do. It seems to me that when drinking and driving in a car, you have a larger margin of error before you die, or even get into an "accident" (never understood why it was called that, they usually aren't). If you make a small mistake on a motorcycle when drunk, I would think that your chances of being killed/maimed/hurt would be much higher, as I think it takes a great deal more precision and skill to operate a 2 wheeler than a cage.
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