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Old 09-26-2001, 07:45 PM   #11
Patrick-of-the-Hills
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Default Re: No More Two-Strokes

I'm a bit puzzled about what statistics you've been reading.



"Emitted solids," or particulates, only come into consideration with diesel engines, mostly because of the sulfur in their fuel. Gasoline engines don't release measurable solids in their exhaust, and the three controlled pollutants (HC, hydrocarbons, unburned fuel; CO, carbon monoxide, incompletely burned fuel and air; and NOx, the family of nitrous oxides, chemically changed nitrogen in the air) are all gaseous.



Besides, it's widely known that trucks (per DOT classification) conform to emissions regulations that are less stringent than passenger cars.



Carbon dioxide (I imagine that's the "phony" greenhouse gas you're referring to) is a direct result of combustion, and proportional to fuel consumption. The more gas you burn, the more carbon dioxide you create, to the tune of about sixteen pounds of it per gallon of gasoline. Unless your Suburban and GMC put together are somehow more fuel-efficient than the Honda, you're creating more carbon dioxide.



The greenhouse effect can't be dealt with too thorougly here, but it continues to surprise me that Americans as a whole are so willing to pretend that it doesn't exist, despite any amount of real evidence to the contrary.



Eliminating two-stroke weed eaters wouldn't be bad, and you wouldn't have to go to four-stroke motors, either. Use an electric one, or else remember that they still make hand-operated clippers.



And the only reason that manufacturers have to be regulated is because of people who are either too short-sighted, stupid, or self-centered to think about the consequences of actions, who don't want to provide the pressure on the industries themselves, and who don't realize just how severely "buying what [you] want" affects everyone else on an increasingly interconnected and messed-up planet.
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Old 09-26-2001, 08:04 PM   #12
VaMason
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Default Re: No More Two-Strokes

This situation is a classic. They can't take on the big guy (Detroit), so they pick on the little guy. They're just a bunch of wuss's.
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Old 09-26-2001, 08:07 PM   #13
aminalmutha
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Default Re: No More Two-Strokes

Realize that there is debate about the greenhouse effect and what actually causes it.
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Old 09-26-2001, 10:07 PM   #14
Per
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Default Please start with the lawnmovers and chainsaws !!!

Move your lawn once and you've poluted more than a thousand miles of driving a modern car or motorcycle !!!!



Now there's a real target that could make a difference, and the almost completely clean burning engine for those appliacenses is already here !!!!



http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/QTIndex.html



There's problably other solutions too.
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Old 09-27-2001, 12:47 AM   #15
ozstrider
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Default Re: No More Two-Strokes

Aprilia have produced a direct injection two stroke scooter that is less polluting than a four stroke.



It seems the EPA aren't interested in new technology and are driven by their sorry ass 'experts' who don't know the meaning of progress.



If they were really concerned, they'd ban unleaded petrol due to the dangers from the additives like benzene and toluene.



Funny isn't it... natives in the New Guinea highlands had (and still have) a higher lead content than the citizens of downtown Melbourne, or LA or NY!



Expert: X - the unknown quantity; spurt - a drip under pressure.



You'd laugh if it wasn't so tragic!



OzSTrider
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Old 09-27-2001, 02:13 AM   #16
moose
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Default Re: No More Two-Strokes

what a shame. but then the buorocrats (sp?) know all about this, first hand.
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Old 09-27-2001, 02:37 AM   #17
jamesohoh7
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Default Re: No More Two-Strokes

You can say that over and over again, but it hardly reduces the hypocrisy level in the fact that the EPA fails time and again to deal with the largest sources of pollution because, well frankly... they get 'lobbied' into looking the other way. The entire lobby system is bogus if you ask me, but that's another debate entirely.



On another post, someone pointed out that the EPA' s own stats show that ALL motorcycles contribute less than one percent to the problem. What portion of that do you think are streeter 2-strokes? Considering that the 2-strokes MIGHT represent 1 to 5% ( a number I am pulling out of that Castrol-choked air, admittedly.. but I'd be surprized if it was that far off ) of the total motorcycles on the road, you see why people might complain. You could also factor in that folks who own them probably don't ride them nearly as often as their 'main' 4-stroke bike b/c really... who depends on a 2-stroke to get them to work and, typically, a 2-stroke owner already has a 4stroke 'main' bike.



Two-stroke streeters are such a niche that really, only the die-hard biker fans will even put up with them. These 2s-street bikes are probably the LEAST ridden of all bikes in hours or miles... dirt-bikes, another story, yes.



The point about "winning a battle you can win to get the ball rolling" that I keep hearing is really kind of hollow. It's not much more than rabid self-righteousness "see! we did something!"

(never mind that it didn't make a bit of difference in the big picture). All sybolic... typical liberal gesticulation... spare me.



If this problem of air-pollution was as dear to the EPA as they claim, they'd nut-up and go after the big fish first. As it is, they go after the guppies, point to it as a success, and thereby justify their budget for another year while "THE PROBLEM" goes largely unsolved... open your eyes people... when the 'drop-dead' day for the trucking industry's standards goes into effect, there will be a "last minute reprieve". That sounds fatalistic/pessimistic/etc... but you know, that's a learned reaction from years of watching this kind of behavior from Congress.



And, yes, for the record, I own 2-strokes... I willingly disclose my built-in bias in my rationalizing up there. So I rationalize, big deal, who hasn't here... at least my rationale holds water where the EPA's is quite sieve-like.



-James

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Old 09-27-2001, 02:46 AM   #18
jamesohoh7
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Default Re: No More Two-Strokes

I keep hearing about the Aprilia technology.. and it sounds very exciting!



The shame is that they are no doubt being discouraged by the rumblings of the enviro-crats into not developing it for larger bikes. It's expensive to develop and if they fear legislation later, they won't take the leap now.



It's amazing... here we have a technology that promises clean, efficient power, and unless a miracle happens, the EPA will likely stomp it before it gets a chance. I did see in another post where the EPA may consider these new injection techologies, but I just have so little faith in the EPA that they'll actually give it a fair examination. Heavy sigh.



-James
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Old 09-27-2001, 02:46 AM   #19
onbmw
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Default Re: No More Two-Strokes

The answer is really simple... it's spelled L O B B I E S T! These a**wipes go to Congress and give them money, vacations, condos, women, drugs or whatever to get the laws passed in there clients favor. They represent everything from foreign governments and the auto industry down to some specially flavored interest group with over exagerated voting power, etc. The AMA is supposed to be lobbying for us, but sometimes you wonder why they aren't pointing the finger at that special interest groups' '71 Buick as an example of the EPA's misguided hammer.
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Old 09-27-2001, 03:36 AM   #20
Copper
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Default Re: No More Two-Strokes

I used to work for the EPA, and it's clear that public knowledge about pollution is mostly the crap that comes out of "Environmentalists" and Dan Rather and his ilk. Case in point:



"Gasoline engines don't release measurable solids in their exhaust"



Gee, I wonder why all those guys were working on the dyno then measuring PM2.5. Gasoline engines release lots of aerosols, and the gases like NOx that are emitted can participate in nucleation of new particles. Heck, Southern CAs smog problem is largely made up of Nitrates and organics.



"The greenhouse effect can't be dealt with too thorougly here. "



If there were no 'greenhouse effect', you wouldn't be here. See: http://www.ems.psu.edu/~fraser/Bad/BadGreenhouse.html



"Eliminating two-stroke weed eaters wouldn't be bad"



Why? They are the most efficient means of doing the job. Where do you think electricity comes from? The sky? Most power in the U.S. comes from combustion. Source apportionment studies typically find that they are a significant contributor to pollution. Weed eaters aren't even included, but if they are, they're called 'non-point' sources and contribute very little to the pollution 'problem'.



"And the only reason that manufacturers have to be regulated is because of people who are either too short-sighted, stupid, or self-centered to think about the consequences of actions"



The only reason that manufacturers are regulated is so that politicians can satisfy their huge egos.



Buying what you want is the most efficient means of economics, that is the allocation of scarce resources that alternative uses. It is also the most productive, the safest, and the best system out there that has been tried thus far.

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