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Old 08-18-2001, 03:34 AM   #51
hutch
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Default Re: LimeSqueezr: Did you not notice HD´s butt got waxed

I can't help thinking we are forgetting the basic fact here people. Harley Davidson's are bad motorcycles. They are old, slow, heavy, poor handling, underbraked, dated looking machines for men with big beards who like dressing up in leather chaps and going slow. By the way, has anyone else noticed the similarities bewteen Harley riders outfits and those worn by gay men in Mardi Gras parades?
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Old 08-18-2001, 06:33 AM   #52
Spinetingler
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Default You said it

Much of the talk on this thread is just 'chicken little' in nature (the sky is falling crap).



For the short-term, all companies are hurting in this economy. Everyday, there are more lay-offs and restructurings. If the economy has more than 2 quarters of negative growth, we'll (officially) be in a recession and downward sentiment will hit the market. Everyone watch out then. We'll see which squirrels stored their acorns for the winter. Harley is no exception to the economy. Yesterday, I heard a dealer (salesman) say Harley appeared to be recession proof. What crap. No company is; they all hurt during a recession. Look at HD's 10Q. They still have gobs of room in the order of money (cash) so they are liquid and, because they are HD, they have plenty of borrowing power.



For the long-term, look at the brand. Someone on this thread stated that HD is the Coca-cola of motorcycles and I agree. Even when Coke changed their formula, experienced some market share loss in a very highly competitive industry, they came back. Can this happen to HD? Yes. However, HD has been careful not to mess with their brand name/image by going too far from their strengths. One example would be Buell. If HD was so sure that the sportbike market would take off, Buells would be called Harley-Davidson's. I'm using this same reasoning for the new V-Rod. There's a reason why this is a HD model and not a Buell model. The future of HD and attraction to the younger market will depend partially on the acceptance of this bike, not only as a HD, but a runner / handler as well. The V-Rod as a Buell would not spur the interest needed for HD to evolve for the next generation. Look at the background and history. When was the last time HD introduced 2 engines within a few years. It will take a long time for Harley to lose it's position in motorcycling.



Until all of the doom and gloom occurs in the market, I'll still ride my HD, enjoy it and be able to trade it in with reasonable value left in it. Ans when the gloom and doom occurs, I'll be able to ride the bike and, hopefully, receive better service from the HD dealerships.



I agree with the dealer comments in this post. When the markert goes down, the customer service friendly dealers will survive and the gougers will be forced to comply. I worked for a dealer part-time (out of interest in the brand) and it almost turned me away from HD. What a d---h--d. His shop was one of the old 'dirtfloor' type shops. You know the type where the dealer lives above the shop and there's no room in the showroom. He complained how he lived through the tough times and that he needed to sell over MSRP because he didn't knowhen the market would turn but he could see the signs (3 years ago). He said this while sending his dsughter to medical school. I feel bad.



Enough out of me - gotta' go ride.
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Old 08-18-2001, 08:06 AM   #53
testrider
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Default Re: Is Harley

Current demand for the product continues to exceed production. Furthermore, investors realize continuing growth in a softening financial economy as H-D beats Wall Street expectations quarter after quarter.



As an investor and employee, I expect (and hope) this trend will continue as H-D will realize strong sales due to new product development (such as the VRSCA) and the approaching 100th anniversary.



As a customer, however, I would also like to see increased production to reduce demand at the dealership level. Many dealers have taken advantage of the customer for several years now with inflated prices. I think it's important, now more than ever, for dealers to look to the future. As production increases (and it will), combined with ever-continuing competition, the success of dealerships will rely on their ability to start relationship building NOW; regardless of the economy.



As always, my views here are personal and I am not acting as an official representative of the motor company.



Lastly...I'll be at the York, PA open house working the demo fleet (Sept 25-30). Feel free to look me up when you get there. I'm always anxious to meet fellow enthusiasts and MO readers.



Troy Krout

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Old 08-18-2001, 09:58 AM   #54
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Default Re: Is Harley

To me, your stories reinforce the "right place, right time" syndrome. I am in the process of buying my first bike and am a total greenhorn. I've been searching for the right new or used Harley at the right price, and went to Sylvania first since they're closest. The salesman spent well over 1/2 hour with me answering all my questions - and they had plenty of customers! Then I went to Signature and got the same good service. Then I called Motor City by phone and got the same good service several times. I just gave Motor City a deposit on a new bike at MSRP for delivery in 12/01, or possibly even 10/01 if that delivery isn't claimed. Did they just get new management? The place I didn't like at all was Motown - big markups and poor attitude just like you and d1976 are saying. And there's probably plenty of people who just love that place. Right place, right time?

BTW, I'd enjoy your recommendations on my new venture into purchasing a bike, options, clothes, the whole bit. I'm anxious to do everything right.
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Old 08-18-2001, 10:51 AM   #55
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Default HD is NOT cutting production

Try to find a Buell dealer that has large numbers of them deeply discounted.


It's not the dealer inventories that are up, it's the manufacturer's inventory that is up. The dealers don't have large numbers of Buells on the floors because they aren't ordering them from the motor company. The 10Q states that even though they have sold less Buell branded units than last year, HD is still projecting (scheduled to manufacture) 10,000 units for 2001.


Guess what happens when you make more bikes and the dealers buy less of them? You end up with a growing inventory of finished goods.
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Old 08-18-2001, 01:57 PM   #56
CrustyOldFart
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Default Re: Dead Harleys

Dude,



It should be fairly obvious that some guy with an email address like blademan@.com is a Brit, and as such probably doesn't give a whit about American traditions, etc. Would you be upset if they stopped showing cricket matches on the satellite sports channel? I thought not.



By the way, last time I checked, Victory was an American marque, even though they're ugly and will probably end up a miserable failure like most of the crap that Polaris builds.
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Old 08-18-2001, 02:24 PM   #57
LimeSqueezr
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Default Yes, they did cut down on some 2001 models...

regardless of "projections" which may or may not mean much. I *know* of a dealer who had to turn people away in June because he could NOT get as many (1200cc) Buells as he had asked for. That wouldn't make any sense if the HDI had scads of them at the factory. Apparently there were Blasts available. Maybe they made too many of those. Projections at this point must be for *calendar* year 2001 not model year 2001 since those are a done deal, and they could easily meet 10000 units in 2001 by ramping up production of 2002s which are already hitting showrooms.
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Old 08-18-2001, 03:31 PM   #58
71MAGNA
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Default Re: Is Harley

Demand is starting to fall off compared to the mid-90's for Harley's. The brunt of their market are baby-boomers with disposable cash and a penchant for anything nostalgia. Their shear numbers fueled the great expansion of harley.

Post-04 Harley will be a different song and dance. Sell all or most of that stock now while value is high. Overall production of motorcycles is up and not everyone desires a Harley regardless of the new V-rod intro.

As the boomers get older, they'll sell off their bikes creating a glut of V-twins on the used market. Soon afterward, Sportsters will be carried-over on showroom floors through the model years followed by the dynas and tour bikes. You'll be able to wheel-and-deal the bastard dealers then. Softails may ride a higher demand for a little while longer until the used prices get low enough as used Hondas did in the mid-80's.

The subsequent generations don't have the gleam in their eye for H-D as the boomers did. I should know, being a rider and member of Gen X. I can easily afford a harley but they couldn't offer me the performance and Value of my Honda. They also couldn't give me the exclusiveness and true marquis brand-ness of my BMW.

That mystique will soon fade as the dodo bird. nobody wanted a Harley before the eighties and no one will after this coming decade. Mark my words.
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Old 08-18-2001, 07:56 PM   #59
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Default Re: do all the engines sound the same

Well, it may soon be a has-been, but at least it will go out with a bang when they shove the 1800 opposed 6 for a last hurrah!



I guess we will probably know after the milan show
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Old 08-18-2001, 11:43 PM   #60
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Default Re: Dead Harleys

Valid point...I never look at the email addresses myself, just the names. Good eyes. And you're right about Victory. I've seen only one on the road, and it was a dealer's bike.



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