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Old 07-12-2001, 06:22 AM   #21
CarsSuck
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Default Give an example

WHAT water cooled HIGH POWER v-twin have the Japanese built (not including sport bikes)? The VTX, that's IT. I haven't heard any bad mouthing like you describe yet, but maybe I just haven't heard it. But that's the only example. All the other cruisers have pathetic power. Why would anyone want a motor that bleeds green and doesn't even make more power than the air cooled one with the 60 year old design unless they just don't understand the point of technology?
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Old 07-12-2001, 06:32 AM   #22
desertbilly
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Default Trying may be the operative word

I think they're going to have to try to sell this bike to their traditional market segment by expanding the Harley definition of cool. I don't think riders who would otherwise go with a Japanese, BMW or Triumph are going to buy one of these just because they're water-cooled and a little sportier. The rift between the Harley world and the non-Harley world is too deep.



Before some cross-over does start to occur, Harley is going to have to have several years of high quality history on the new line. Buyers ready to drop $13,000 to $18,000 for an ST1100 or R1150RT aren't going to buy a bike with the traditional Harley level of quality and reliability. If they don't get the quality way up in a hurry, they're not going to bridge the gap. Otherwise, it's the Buell experience all over again, but in a different segment.



After the quality issue, comes the refinement issue. That's nearly as tough. Look at the TT600. It's a fine bike, but you don't come up with a CBR600F4 or a GSX-R600 on your first attempt.



Will they be able to sell it to their current customer base? I'd guess some yes and some no. The old-timers won't want it, but the Yuppie status-seekers will want a Porshce-designed engine and more power.



Will they continue to make a fortune? Oh, yeah.
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Old 07-12-2001, 06:48 AM   #23
stevegrab
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Default Re: All the details..........

Yeah, I'd have to agree with you there (direct links to MCN news not working). A friend of mine sent me a URL for this story saying "Its about time..", I found no story dispalyed, so I browsed the news and figured he was talking about this new Harley.



Interesting thing is I read in a story (http://news.excite.com/news/r/010712...harleydavidson) that this bike was targeted at the European market, that is more interested in speed & performance than style (unlike the US market). It will be interesting to see what develops from this bike, whether they use the motor for Buells, or racing, or even some even sportier Harleys.
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Old 07-12-2001, 06:51 AM   #24
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Default Re: Yahoo

That's a good one.
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Old 07-12-2001, 07:15 AM   #25
bigjames
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Default Re: Yahoo

Personally, I am looking forward to it, especially when the bagger version comes out! When it does, I'll buy it, end of story. Know a guy who test rides in Talladega for Harley. All I could get out of him was he would not deny that it existed and he liked it - a lot. My Brand X bike (read that big comfy Luxo-Tourer, no not that one, the one that actually handles well but has sucky rear brakes) may or may not stay when the new Hog comes home. Doesn't the motor look like a cleaned up version of the VR1000? Looks comfy too. Want a touring cersion very badly!



Now, I usually ignore all the 'broken down Harley' things (almost everbody knows those days are way long gone), but not this time. My Harley has 169,000 miles on it, yes same engine, and has not left me on the side of the road - ever - in 13 years, has hauled a sidecar for the last 4 years and has been on a trailer only one time! Matter of fact, it just came back from a 3,000 mile trip with my 11 year old in the sidecar. Did not miss a lick.



Wish I could say the same about the 7 brand x bikes I've owned during the same period of time. Every one of them left me on the side of the road more than once and all have gone away (except the newest Brand X, that over heated in traffic Tuesday).



Face it, you all are jealous that Harley has decided to blow off the cloners and come out with a new product, for them to clone! Deal with it, Harley is the only company that can out Harley Harley!

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Old 07-12-2001, 07:51 AM   #26
BONGTOKER
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Default Re: Yahoo

I heard the motor was based off the VR1000. If this is true you want be able to get around the block before it breaks down.
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Old 07-12-2001, 08:31 AM   #27
lesanto
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Default MCN...

This is rich!





Just over a week after the MCN leader writer Kevin Smash posts a story in the paper about unprofessional websites, and advises readers not to use motorcycle websites that don’t also have a (paper) magazine MCN do this. They break an embargo, report a story before they are supposed to, thus grabbing the headlines and getting sites that toe the line, like MO, looking ‘slow’ or ‘old’ with their news.





This is typical of MCN’s ‘we don’t give a damn’ about anything but our bottom line attitude.





I disagree with much of SmashÂ’s original article, - suggesting that websites made by anyone apart from a big paper publishing house are pants and it shouldnÂ’t be allowed - ANYONE who wants to should be able to make a website, no matter how crappy. And his suggestion that just because a mag is put together by a registered company it is accountable, professional and readable, sorry Kev, but there are many mags out there that are simply awful, regardless of budget!!





He does have a point about copyright violation. But then wasnÂ’t it MCN that got reprimanded for lifting stories direct off other websites and the newsnet???

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Old 07-12-2001, 08:32 AM   #28
wwalkersd
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Default Re: Trying may be the operative word

I think anybody who would buy a VTX, Warrior or Mean Streak would look hard at this new Harley. Then they'd run screaming back to the Japanese bike dealer, because MCN says the Harley's gonna start at $21,000 (roughly. They said 14,000 pounds)! That's a hell of a premium over a VTX for the HD name.
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Old 07-12-2001, 08:52 AM   #29
bigjames
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Default Re: MCN... Here, Here,

I agree with all points. I read MCN (England) on line, but due to their journalistic lack of ethics, will not pay a dime to read it! The pics look like professional prints handed during a press release (or dealer show). One has to wonder how they got into the hands of a British Magazine the same day they are being given (supposedly) to Harley Dealers only. Me thinks there is a rat (or mole) in the Harley plant...



BTW, I'm calling my dealer this weekend and reserving a 2003, with saddle bags...
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Old 07-12-2001, 09:48 AM   #30
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Default Whatever

I am so disappointed they can't get the Superbike program in gear. We heard a lot of noise at the beginning of the season about major changes and a big turnaround. Even Cycle World had a big article about how the changes, which anyone might have suspected where the usual smoke and fluff, were for real this time.



I was there at Laguna Seca and saw the factory bikes barely limp across the line in 9th and 10th. If there was any time for Harley to prove they were for real, that was the race -- in front of the whole world. Instead, it looks like business as usual. What a shame.



It will be a shame on Cycle World if they don't publish what a failure the turnaround effort has been thus far. Their rose-colored view will have zero credibility.
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