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Old 07-03-2001, 11:56 AM   #21
Poser
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Default Re: Motorcycle Related Deaths Rise Again

Good points all. I suppose I qualify as a "real rider" having ridden nearly every day for the last three or four years. I don't even think of driving a car, even when it is 34 and raining. Yeah, I still do dumb/aggressive things, but like Gixxerboy, I try to be reasonably intellegent about where the red mist takes over.



The reason that I joined the AMA is to give them one more body to point to as a part of the riding constituency. The more of us that are obviously organized, the more effective we will be in staving off dumb legislation. You may not agree with all of the AMA's agenda- I certainly don't- but there is nobody else out there that has their clout or potential to keep the regulators from screwing us completely. The more members they have, the more effective they can be.



There are several other organizations that are similar, but they are geared more toward cagers: National Motorists Association and RADAR. They are more interested in getting rid of dumb traffic laws that affect everyone. We can join those organizations, as well, but the AMA is more important to riders.



The most important aspect of keeping ourselves relatively free from government interference is to be organized. The idiots will sieze on irrelevant statistical noise to make a point, and increasing death rates look much more valid than that.



Also, we all need to be aware that we must refute the typical "donorcycle" arguments that we hear all the time. There are reasons for bike crashes, just like there are reasons for car crashes. Do we ban cars? Of course not. The rider has a fair amount of control over the situation he/ she finds himself/ herslef in. As riders, we need to explain the benefits of using a bike for daily transportation. Maybe we can expand the number of riders and give the politicians less reason to run over us because we are a small minority and an easy mark.



OK, I will get down off my soapbox now.
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Old 07-03-2001, 11:58 AM   #22
2whlnut
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Default Re: Motorcycle Related Deaths Rise Again

I agree with everything said above so I won't repeat. I have completed the MSF Basic RiderCourse (1997) and Keith Code's CSS Level I (2000). I have ridden 20,000 accident-free and point-free miles on a 1994 F2 including 2 long tours as well as commuting. I always wear at the very least a leather jacket, TwoBros jeans, Technic Violator boots and gloves as well as my Arai; most of the time it's a full Dainese suit with a back protector. I will not drink and ride on the same day in that order.



I know in some EU countries they tax motor vehicles based on displacement. I do not know if those same countries have graduated licensing as well.



It is compleletely infeasible to change to graduated licensing overnight, or at least here in the US. And then you still have riders out there on bikes they are not supposed to have under the new law. So let's go for a two-prong approach:



1) Update the current law to say that you must have a motorcycle endorsement to register and insure motorcycles. This will apply for those who already have bike(s).



2) Adopt a graduated licensing system based on displacement for those who do not currently have an endorsement or a motorcycle. Enforcement will be up to the state DMV.



The Grandfather Clause: If you already have a motorcycle(s) you can continue to insure and register that motorcycle(s) while you go through the various levels under the graduated licensing system. However, if you wreck that/those motorcycle(s) and/or want to purchase and insure & register another you can only insure & register those bikes available at your level. Current motorcycle endorsement holders may receive credit based on riding record.



So what about people without proper endorsements who buy motorcycles from dealers and private sellers?? They'll need to pray they do not get stopped by the police.



What about those who want to take their buddy's bike for a spin?? So long as the bike is at your level then you'll be clean.



I realize that not everyone will agree with what I am saying. I may have been a little redundant. My goal is to make life easier for those who do ride responsibly. For what it is worth the only time I ride the speed limit is when I'm in traffic. The rest of the time I ride fast enough not to get passed. I attribute my point-free record to wearing leathers even when it's too hot to #$%.
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Old 07-03-2001, 12:01 PM   #23
minime
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Default Re: Motorcycle Related Deaths Rise Again

Thanks wardop. here's a link for people to click on and go:http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/motorcycleimprovement.html"
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Old 07-03-2001, 12:54 PM   #24
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Default Re: Motorcycle Related Deaths Rise Again

i disagree, i think a 600 is a great bike to learn on. on the other hand, something like a 250 would be a very bad choice for the beginning rider. no matter what, it cannot be safe to ride a bike that doesnt have enough power to get out of it's own way. 600s are good because they do not have overwhelming power at the low rpm but they are powerful enough so that the rider doesnt kill him self when he cant get out of the way of a car about to hit him when it runs a red light. 600s also will accomodate the rider forever, it will never be way too slow. i should know, i dragrace a GSXR-600 in the 600 class for AMA/PROSTAR.



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Old 07-03-2001, 12:57 PM   #25
uncleron
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Default Re: Motorcycle Related Deaths Rise Again

Once again, the federal government is using OUR tax dollars to attack us. I guess its just easier to blame us and force us to wear helmets than to do something about the ignorant masses in their oversize suvs and minivans. While commuting to work on my bike, I have noticed people in cages putting on makeup, shaving, yapping on their cell phones, and reading magazines - all while they are supposed to be driving. It should not take a rocket scientist to figure out that when one of us meets up with the latest 4000-8000 pound ford/toyota/etc. suburban death machine that we are going to be on the losing end. If they sincerely want to save lives, they should quit trying to force helmet use, and concentrate on increasing funding for rider training and motorcycle awareness training for all cagers. While they're at it, they should get unsafe drivers (like the late Tennesee Senator Carl Koella) off of the roads before they have a chance to kill.



We can take responsibility for ourselves, and ride safe, but when the roads are choked with stupid, unskilled cagers in oversized vehicles, who are mostly oblivious to what's going on around them, the odds are stacked against us. A government organization which is more interested in pushing its own agenda than it is in doing its job does not help this situation.
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Old 07-03-2001, 01:13 PM   #26
Dragracer
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Default WHATS GOIN ON HERE?!?

first, background check (good idea)



age: 15 with motorcycle permit



experience: few months on the street, alot of dragracing, some dirtbike riding



bike: 2001 GSXR-600 for racing in the 600 SuperSport class in AMA/PROSTAR



protection: full face helmet(snell 95),full Vanson leathers at the track, boots, jeans, leather jacket, and full face helmet on the street



Tiered, liscenses? Helmet laws? HP limits? Sounds like a socialist view to me. This is America, we have the privledge of choice. I disagree with helmet laws for the same reason everyone else does. HP limits are stupid, just like in France (98hp, right?). Tiered liscenses, not really. They almost are a good thing, i just think that young kids like me shouldn't have daddy buy them a brand new Busa or 12r. like i said before, 600s are fine, but a bike that can wheelie at over 100mph in the hands of a kid (even one like me) on the street is dumb. I think the people should be better informed and insurance rates on bikes should be based on experience. More strict test requirements and safety courses are good too. Just don't let the government make a law for everything unless you want to be protected from yourself.



Vince Woska
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Old 07-03-2001, 01:21 PM   #27
TOddnick
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Default Re: Motorcycle Related Deaths Rise Again

I don't particulary want to start a flame war, but if you want to "stick around to raise my kids" maybe you should be driving a cage.



Seriously.



The mortality rate is high, and most bikers don't like to discuss that fact that they are the numbers (in the making).



The bottom line is, If your children rely on you to be there for your love and support, sell the bike.

Its not about armoured leathers and a snell rated lid.
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Old 07-03-2001, 01:31 PM   #28
hackfu
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Default Re: Motorcycle Related Deaths Rise Again

I think he, just like all of us, are just trying to keep the odds "in the green."
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Old 07-03-2001, 01:47 PM   #29
Gecko
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Default no flames but I don't buy it

I can name 10 riders in my family who have combined over way over 200 years of riding and they are all still alive. Riding a motorcycle was the least dangerous thing my father did (Navy carrier pilot). Baring a freak of nature I'm of the opinion that if you are a responsible rider you will survive being a motorcylist. Darwinism...Ride like a stupid man and you deserve to die. No law should be able to save you.
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Old 07-03-2001, 01:48 PM   #30
ttcaml
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Default Re: Motorcycle Related Deaths Rise Again

I have to dissagree with part of what you said. Sure a 250 may be too small, but most 600's are poor beginer bikes. All 600's are quite powerful, and the 600 supersport bikes are very powerful, though it may not seem that way to someone who races and is used to the power. I started out three years ago on an '83 Virago 500, and that bike's power seemed overwhelming, I ride a '00 TT600 now (after 5000mi on the Virago and 10,000mi on an '86 Radian) I have over 7000mi on it and I am certian that if I had started on a bike like this I would not be the same person I am today.

Looking back, I think a small displacement (*maybe* an SV 650), very used, V-twin is a good beginer bike.
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