Go Back   Motorcycle Forum > Motorcycle.Com General Discussion > Motorcycle News > Old News > Paranoid News Clips

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-23-2001, 08:07 AM   #31
bugsplatter
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 33
Default Re: Ortega Highway Motorcyclist Attack Update

I hope that if any of you harrass this piece of fecal matter you are careful to cover your asses.
bugsplatter is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links Remove Advertisements
Motorcycle Forum
Advertisement
Old 03-23-2001, 08:10 AM   #32
bugsplatter
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 33
Default Re: Perception is reality

Patrolman hopefully recovers 100%. I am sure he knows that not all riders are delinquents because a great many of his fellow officers are also riders.
bugsplatter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2001, 11:27 AM   #33
CarsSuck
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 282
Default That is true, but

A motorcycle wheelying and speeding poses less risk than a car driving the speed limit, or than an SUV doing anything at all in an urban environment.
CarsSuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2001, 07:48 AM   #34
Wolvie
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 30
Default Re: That is true, but

Cars, c'mon now. You really can't believe that.



I understand your point about motorcyclists being divided on issues, but to think that you can gauge the risk of an out of control motorcycle vs. anything else on the road is just denial, bro.



I responded to a LOT of accidents when I worked as an EMT. I can tell you first hand what happens when some idiot squid loses a wheelie and the bike ends up going through the windshield of an oncoming car. I can also testify through personal experience what will happen to a group of pedestrians when an out of control, 500+ LB, 50-mph missile slams into them. Not to mention that a high-speed bike hitting another vehicle can easily cause that car to go out of control, which in turn hits someone else...and so goes the domino effect.



Statements like "I can do (whatever) because I will do less damage than a car", will cause the public to view us as irresponsible and dangerous. This is exactly the excuse the anti-motorcycle dweebs need to legislate the $h!t out of us.

Wolvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2001, 12:54 PM   #35
CarsSuck
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 282
Default I never said

that anyone should do WHATEVER they want. You are talking about what vehicles do when they colide, I'm talking about risk and odds from the moment you leave your driveway. You've got a vehicle that's a 3rd as wide as a car, it therefore has to turn a lot less to miss something, like say a pedestrian or bicycle. Add to this that it turns much much quicker than a 4 wheeled vehicle, and add in the fact that the stopping distance of a motorcycle is a tiny fraction of a car's, and the motorcycle has the option of stopping OR swerving or both, and it does either FAR better than the car could do both of them. The fact that there are squids who can't even use these great advantages to keep from running into stuff is a result of these squids really being cagers who found a new toy, and they are in the minority anyway. So if a motorcyclist wants to pop a wheelie in a reasonable place in a reasonable way so be it. I will not get down on him, I will worry about educating the reckless cagers to the fact that they are the inferior motorists and have no right to scorn. And by reckless I don't mean driving fast--speed is not the enemy. Laziness is what makes bad drivers. Fast drivers are usually at least paying attention (well, more than not I suppose). By not checking their blind spots EVERY time, by pulling out from stops without actually stopping or even looking, by talking on their cell phones and all their other distractions, because they figure since they're going the speed limit that's the extent of their responsibility. They are very casually taking risks with the lives of others, and not necessarilly just other motorists. Yes, I probably went too far with the last post. But a little mild hooliganism, or splitting lanes whether it's accepted or not, does not reach the level of irresponsibility that simply driving a car represents. Maybe it sounds crazy because cars are so universally accepted, but that doesn't mean it's not true. Motorcyclists are superior to car drivers, they represent the solution while car drivers represent the problem, and I believe that. My whole point is that we shouldn't be trying to cater to people with these attitudes (attitudes: that a motorcycle going fast or moving quickly through traffic or popping a little wheely is a menace, while they are not as they talk on their cell phone and don't check when they change lanes or bother to look before turning left across an intersection), we should be trying to change these attitudes, and let these people know in no uncertain terms that they are the menace, not us.
CarsSuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2001, 06:53 PM   #36
bugsplatter
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 33
Default Re: I never said

Cars suck, you are right about alot of squids being cagers with a new toy. I'm not sure they are a minority on group rides.

You are also right about about laziness and inattentive drivers. And about cell phone users, make up applicators, news paper readers, etc.

In fact I aggree with almost every part of your post.



Except this:



"the fact that the stopping distance of a motorcycle is a tiny fraction of a car's"



This is a myth. OUR STOPPING DISTANCE IS NOT A FRACTION OF THAT OF A MODERN AUTOMOBILE! Believe it or not a Valkyrie can probably panic stop is a shorter distance than an R1. As soon as you stop going in a strait line or ride in the wet most modern sedans with four wheel disk brakes can out brake a sportbike. In the wet a delivery truck can outbrake you.



I wish MO would do a test to educate riders to this fact.



Other than the bit about braking distance, great post.
bugsplatter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2001, 10:28 AM   #37
CarsSuck
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 282
Default That is absolutely incorrect.

And I've proved it for myself. I outbrake cars regularly in the snow, with my 20 year old brakes and skinny tires. I pull up to the light faster, I stop at it, they slide through it. My big concern stopping at a light on snow is if there's a car behind me who can't stop. This is physics. A lighter object requires less of a traction surface to weight ratio to accomplish the same feat of traction (stopping, accelerating, etc) as a heavier object, yet most motorcycles have a greater traction surface to weight ratio than a car's, even though they weigh a fraction of what a car does. A car magazine did a test of some high performance sports cars with porche, jaguar etc, and threw in a ZX-9. The test was 0-100-0. Not only did the ZX-9 stop before any of the cars made it to 100, but the stopping distance was a fraction of the cars' (if I remember right, about 1/10th of the distance), and these cars outperform the average modern car by a good margin. As far as a Valkerie outbraking an R1, I have no idea where you'd get that idea.
CarsSuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2001, 10:36 AM   #38
CarsSuck
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 282
Default I should add

to clarify: the physics that give a motorcycle an advantave over a car don't change with lean angles or moisture, only peoples' perceptions do. If someone should educate the riding public about braking, they should educate them that their brakes DO still work in the wet. Limitations on wet surfaces or leaned over are the riders', not the bikes'.
CarsSuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2001, 02:29 PM   #39
bugsplatter
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 33
Default Re: That is absolutely incorrect.

I don't know where to begin,

0 - 100 - 0 test is won by bike because of the advantage they hold in acceleration! Its the 0 - 100 time that makes the difference. probably less than 7 sec for the 9r and more likely 10-18 seconds for any car they tested.

Your statement that the stopping distance is 1/10th of the cars is incorrect. If you can stop a bike from 100 mph in less than 50 ft you are amazing and should be making the big bucks with max biagi and kenny roberts. Last time I checked the braking distance for sportbikes in a strait line from 60 mph with an expert rider was over 100 ft. The average car with ABS will pull this number with no skill on the part of the driver in less than 130 ft. I would be very surprised if you could reliably stop your bike in less than 130 ft from sixty mph. I've spent a great deal of time practicing and I bet 5 time out of six I couldn't do it with my new sport bike. I am neither an expert or a complete poser, my bike is my only transportation and has been for 3 years. I have also practiced the 100mph - 0 stop. I bet I never did it less than 250 ft!



As to the Valkyrie R1 comparo it comes down to physics of contact patch, size and number.



At maximum braking the R1 has one small contact patch of rubber and the road because the rear wheel is off of the ground.

The valkyrie, has two larger contact patches at maximum braking and has good brakes for a cruiser. THere are more physical components to this equation than just light weight and big brakes.



Back to cars vs bike and braking watch superbike and touring car racing and watch the braking points, the cars brake much much later and can hold the brakes much longer after they have started braking.



As to where I get these foolish ideas, french TV, fast bikes did a track comparo of cars and bikes, and I think also did a braking length test between 900rr and a valkyrie a few years ago. I think I also read a bit on this subject in americas motorcycleconsumernews.



This is not a slam on CarsSuck, your points about motorcyclists being the better motorist I think hold water. Its just this braking bit.....





bugsplatter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2001, 05:14 PM   #40
CarsSuck
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 282
Default Well the car magazine printed it.

Their braking distances were very long, this is what they printed.

If the R1s rear is lifting I would have a hard time believing this rider doesn't have a problem with their braking technique! Maybe if they're testing what happens when a hamfist stomps both levers, I don't know, I've never ridden an R1 but I find it hard to believe that it cannot be kept from stoppying.

Aside from the fact that what you've said is not even close to being consistent with the laws of physics, it's also not consistent with the reality I've observed. I've driven modern cars, I've ridden modern bikes. They're not even close. I don't know what else to say. But when observable reality is so consistent with the basic physics concepts I'm going to have to go with that. You said yourself the motorcycle does stop faster, well that doesn't change in the wet, riders are just more afraid to brake in the wet. If you want a good comparison to remove some of the skill element, try a straight hamfisted (and footed) lock up braking test with an ABS motorcycle and an ABS car. I know personally I've never driven a car that could stop as fast at full lock as a 98 speed triple with just the front brake. And, explain how a car can be going so slow, and then slide past me on snow when I stopped with plenty of reserve? I'm really trying to see this here, as there are so many instances in which reality mocks theory, but I just don't see it. All the relevant facts and experience I've observed seems to back up the theory in this case. I'd like to try the R1 vs Valkerie thing out for myself. If the R1 is THAT stoppy prone then I'm defnitely going to have to try it and see. Now if MO would just send over the R1 and the Valk I'd be happy to do the test and write it up for them! I'll even do it on snow if they want (or will let me).
CarsSuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off