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Old 10-04-2006, 01:14 PM   #41
billhawley
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Default Re: Safety Instructor Killed in Accident.

I have no problem with folks discussing crashes (even when "blame" is sometimes assigned without knowing all of the facts), since some good information usually gets dispensed as a side benefit. Hopefully this will fall into that category.



That classic "left turn in front of the motorcyclist" collision is the most popular "biker killer" (upwards of 70%) for two reasons:



1) Most people don't get on the brakes hard enough to significantly reduce the resultant impact speeds (if contact is absolutely unavoidable). Sounds simple, but consider: The last "emergency situation" you lived through -- could you have braked harder and still maintained control? If you're honest, the answer is "yes". It might have just been an "urgent attention needed" scenario, not an "emergency" one.



2) Most people will panic and instinctively turn the handlebars to the left (very efficiently countersteering the bike "hard right", and directly into the left turning car).



This can even happen to very highly skilled riders too (I'm certainly not including myself in that group, just stating a personal belief).



Hard braking and steering techniques should be practiced as often as possible -- maybe even every time we ride; so it's as instinctive and effective as possible when it's required. Most people, even otherwise excellent riders or drivers, will tend to panic, or at least be indecisive in ALL crisis situations. This is one that generally doesn't present sufficient time to make any real decision at all.



So I try to take the human (me) mostly out of the equation whenever I can.



Personally, what I do is try to use a "situational awareness" technique by consciously taking particular note of all traffic positioning as I approach every intersection, and usually try to be in the right lane (or to the right of the left lane) whenever possible by the time I get there. This should help provide roughly the maximum amount of space (and time) between you and a left turner in most cases. This also gives oncoming traffic a chance to see your bike (and its headlight) change position, maybe drawing attention to you as you approach.



Still, if you're in "the best position" and the worst still happens, it might then be possible to go around the car (to the left) as long as you KNOW you have no "company" in the lane immediately to your left -- and no traffic immediately behind the "left turner" either; however, just as importantly, you now have a new option: you can even TURN RIGHT if contact is obviously unavoidable (at least putting yourself roughly in the same direction of travel and minimizing the resultant speeds between you and the "enemy").



Either of these manuevers might also help a LOT if the idiot finally "sees" you and actually STOPS right in the middle of the intersection (as they've done to me in the past on more than one occasion). You may still end up with severe injuries if you lowside, but shouldn't end up doing a flying Super Hero or "straight in face plant" (with resultant brain or spinal cord damage).



Having said all that (as your eyes glaze over...), some two vehicle collisions are probably still unavoidable (but mostly become so due to inattention on at least one party's part). I'm also no highly trained expert, I'm just stating what has seemed to work for me so far; and hopefully will continue to. I could also have my head up my butt, and have thisll wrong" too. So use or ignore it as you see fit.



But please feel free to offer any new ideas and suggestions to all of the people you ride and hang out with, as I personally learn valuable new tips every year (and have been riding well over 30 years). It's truly a shame that only tragedies like this one force "moto-school" to come into session among riders and friends.
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Old 10-04-2006, 01:42 PM   #42
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Default Re: Safety Instructor Killed in Accident.

Excellent Post. Well said. Much better than I
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Old 10-04-2006, 01:44 PM   #43
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Default Re: Defending the dead

Well said. You nailed it, very succintly
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Old 10-04-2006, 01:53 PM   #44
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Default Re: Safety Instructor Killed in Accident.

Excellent Post and you make an very important point about braking. to reduce the impact. One time I got in car accident cause I was fumbling with my cell phone looked up and the light in front of me was red. I saw the cross traffic in the intersection as I was slamming the brakes (no ABS) and I was skidding and sliding the rear. I hit a guy broadside but the damage was minimal..because I had slowed quite a bit. The cop went easier on me than I suspect the usual red light runner cause he saw my skid marks and said the yellow light seemd short. Even though I didn't even see the yellow. Stupid cell phones.. Should outlaw them while driving keep idiots like me from killing somone.. Excellent Post and the practice thing is another good point.. I used to do it but have gave up on it the last two years. When I get my bike back I will .. Thanks for the reminder.
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Old 10-04-2006, 04:45 PM   #45
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Default Re: Safety Instructor Killed in Accident.

Lots of valuable information there, thanx. Along the lines you mentioned, over 40 odd years have taught me that there were probably more times I couldn't brake to a stop but was able to slow down enough to swerve around the offending obstacle and avoid a crash. This is one of the reasons I felt very strongly that the MSF should never have taught if you locked your rear wheel in a maximum braking effort, leave it locked. Even though I was a MSF instructor for eight years, I think this is a potentially deadly action. If you are leaned over and lock your rear wheel, by all means, keep it locked. You're goin' down, but a low-side beats a high side every time. However, if you are reasonably upright, release the rear brake and allow it to hook up before reapplying. The reason I believe so strongly in this is because if your rear wheel is locked and you do have to swerve around some object, then at the most crucial time to avoid a crash, you have to remember to unlock the wheel before you swerve. If you make any attempt to swerve with the rear wheel locked, you're on your butt. Also, at that most critical moment, it takes time (and distance) to allow the rear wheel to regain traction to allow you to swerve. At that point, you may not have enough space and you will crash into what you were trying to avoid. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.....
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Old 10-04-2006, 05:35 PM   #46
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Default Re: Safety Instructor Killed in Accident.

Good thing the guy you hit wasn't on a motorcycle.



How are those delusions?
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Old 10-04-2006, 06:22 PM   #47
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Default Re: Defending the dead

succinct: [suhk-singkt] -adjective



1. expressed in few words; concise; terse.



2. characterized by conciseness or verbal brevity.



3. compressed into a small area, scope, or compass.



4. Archaic.

a. drawn up, as by a girdle.

b. close-fitting.

c. encircled, as by a girdle.



—Related forms

succinctly; adverb

succinctness; noun





;^D





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Old 10-04-2006, 06:27 PM   #48
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Default Re: Safety Instructor Killed in Accident.

I thought when the rear wheel locks-up, slides, and then regains traction suddenly - you won't be on your butt: rather, you'll do a Superman........................
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Parfois, on fait pas semblant
Sometimes, it's not pretend
Oderint Dum Metuant
Let them hate so long as they fear
политики предпочитают безоружных крестьян
Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants
Nothing to see here, Citizen. Move along now...
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Old 10-04-2006, 06:39 PM   #49
Flickmeister
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Default Re: Safety Instructor Killed in Accident.

My point exactly. Keeping it locked and low siding beats the heck out of releasing the brake, having the tire regrip, and flip you over the top (you did remember to wear your cape, didn't you?)
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Old 10-04-2006, 06:45 PM   #50
ksquid
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Default Re: Safety Instructor Killed in Accident.

Yep you are right. I don't drive and phone unless I have a head set. I try not to use a phone and drive but between 2 daughters, a wife and work (24X7 sometimes) ...it's hard not to... My delusions are fine thanks.. As big as ever...
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