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Steve781 · 09-18-2006, 09:57 AM

Sometimes it is the tool. Sad, whatever the reason.

Pretty damning evidence, a statement from MCN in a review saying the thing was unstable over 85.

ksquid · 09-18-2006, 10:06 AM

Wow! Hey Buz have you had this trouble with your Glide?.. This could put a big damper on HDs police bike promotions.

ejis · 09-18-2006, 10:11 AM

One wonders why, if that is the case, the bike is so commonly used as a police vehicle...

Buzglyd · 09-18-2006, 10:24 AM

I find it hard to believe that H-D would sell it as a pursuit vehicle. It would be silly to pursue a car on any motorcycle-even a ZX14.

The Glide is good for anything up to 85. Anything more than that and it will occillate a bit. The swingarm is attached to the back of the tranny which is rubber mounted along with the motor.

It's built for leisurely touring, not high speed.

The_AirHawk · 09-18-2006, 10:26 AM

Mark Kircher, a Milwaukee lawyer who is national counsel for Harley-Davidson in the case, said no two-wheeled vehicle is immune to a wobble but that motorcycles can be designed to recover from wobble quickly.

"This model motorcycle was extensively tested and validated," Kircher said. "The investigation suggests that [the wreck] was caused purely by the speed he was riding, the corner he was riding in and the [wind] from the truck he was trying to pass. He encountered a bag of concrete. That's what caused the motorcycle to upset and caused him to come off of it and get injured."

While I have no idea how much "wobble" at elevated speeds your typical Harley has, I would have to say that I mostly agree with the Blood-Sucking Lawyer on this one.

Wouldn't matter if he was on a BMW, a 'Busa, or maybe even in a car - striking an 80-lb bag of concrete (was it still "mix" - or had it gotten wet and hardened while sitting?) while fighting the turbulence in a Semi's wake, on a curve. >shakes head sadly<. Perhaps the wobble contributed to the crash, yes?

Offhand, I would say he was breaking the 12-second rule, or he wouldn't have struck the debris (attack of the 50-foot-stare is one of my own most egregious errors - but I work on it daily). It's even possible he saw the debris in time, but underestimated the ground-clearance of his machine - hard parts are usually a major limiting factor in relation to the tire's adhesion with the road, when cornering hard.

Mind, I'm not beating the man up - he's gone, and is unable to defend himself here. Having recently lost my own Father, I certainly feel for his family; one really wishes he hadn't tried to overtake the Semi where and how he did (I remember reading of this incident when it happened several years ago).

RRRIDER · 09-18-2006, 10:29 AM

Who knows, some people think Harleys are the best bikes ever made and feel cool cuz they ride one. As advanced and well-made as other brand's motorcycles are, I also wonder why the police force would choose Harley.

RRRIDER · 09-18-2006, 10:36 AM

Yeah I missed the part that he ran over the concrete bag, then the bike wobbled. I'd be pretty scared if I hit one on my CBR1krr and am pretty sure the bike would unstable itself. Anyways, I would still choose BMW over Harley, especially for police work

Fenton · 09-18-2006, 10:47 AM

I have a good friend that had the same type of wobble show up while passing a truck with his Electra-Glide. Scared the crap out of him. He still has it but no longer runs it that hard. He figures his Bigdog is a better high speed bike.

seruzawa · 09-18-2006, 10:53 AM

It's too bad that we have a culture now where everyone who undergoes a personal tragedy believes they have the right to become independently wealthy. I'm very sorry for the officer and his family, but if the same thing happened to me I'd have no one to blame but myself. A professional rider especially should know the capabilities and limitations of his machine and ride it accordingly.

I'm sick of paying thousands of dollars each year for the things I buy because of the liability premiums the manufacturers have to carry. Why should they be held liable for the incompetence and bad judgemant of the users?

What about the guy that left the bag of cement there? How about suing him? Not deep enough pockets, that's why. Or how about suing the road department for not cleaning up the shoulders? This lawsuit is simply a result of an ambulance chaser coming up with some BS excuse to sue the deep pockets.

Damm all bottomfeeding lawyers and the culture of greed that supports this system of shakedowns.

seruzawa · 09-18-2006, 10:58 AM

Last I saw it is illegal to ride over 85mph. So if you crash don't bother suing HD.

09-18-2006, 09:57 AM	#1
Steve781 Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Houston Posts: 148	Damning Evidence Sometimes it is the tool. Sad, whatever the reason. Pretty damning evidence, a statement from MCN in a review saying the thing was unstable over 85.

09-18-2006, 10:06 AM	#2
ksquid Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: My new favorite site is CycleWorld.com Posts: 3,775	Re: 'Wobble' to Blame for Officer's Death? Wow! Hey Buz have you had this trouble with your Glide?.. This could put a big damper on HDs police bike promotions.

09-18-2006, 10:11 AM	#3
ejis Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 285	Re: Damning Evidence One wonders why, if that is the case, the bike is so commonly used as a police vehicle...

09-18-2006, 10:24 AM	#4
Buzglyd Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 10,137	Re: 'Wobble' to Blame for Officer's Death? I find it hard to believe that H-D would sell it as a pursuit vehicle. It would be silly to pursue a car on any motorcycle-even a ZX14. The Glide is good for anything up to 85. Anything more than that and it will occillate a bit. The swingarm is attached to the back of the tranny which is rubber mounted along with the motor. It's built for leisurely touring, not high speed. __________________ Jay Leno: "President Obama released his tax returns. It turns out he made $900,000 less in 2011 than he did in 2010. You know what that means? Even Obama is doing worse under President Obama."

09-18-2006, 10:26 AM	#5
The_AirHawk Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Livin' in a Van: down by the Mariana Trench Posts: 10,891	Re: 'Wobble' to Blame for Officer's Death? Mark Kircher, a Milwaukee lawyer who is national counsel for Harley-Davidson in the case, said no two-wheeled vehicle is immune to a wobble but that motorcycles can be designed to recover from wobble quickly. "This model motorcycle was extensively tested and validated," Kircher said. "The investigation suggests that [the wreck] was caused purely by the speed he was riding, the corner he was riding in and the [wind] from the truck he was trying to pass. He encountered a bag of concrete. That's what caused the motorcycle to upset and caused him to come off of it and get injured." While I have no idea how much "wobble" at elevated speeds your typical Harley has, I would have to say that I mostly agree with the Blood-Sucking Lawyer on this one. Wouldn't matter if he was on a BMW, a 'Busa, or maybe even in a car - striking an 80-lb bag of concrete (was it still "mix" - or had it gotten wet and hardened while sitting?) while fighting the turbulence in a Semi's wake, on a curve. >shakes head sadly<. Perhaps the wobble contributed to the crash, yes? Offhand, I would say he was breaking the 12-second rule, or he wouldn't have struck the debris (attack of the 50-foot-stare is one of my own most egregious errors - but I work on it daily). It's even possible he saw the debris in time, but underestimated the ground-clearance of his machine - hard parts are usually a major limiting factor in relation to the tire's adhesion with the road, when cornering hard. Mind, I'm not beating the man up - he's gone, and is unable to defend himself here. Having recently lost my own Father, I certainly feel for his family; one really wishes he hadn't tried to overtake the Semi where and how he did (I remember reading of this incident when it happened several years ago). __________________ *Parfois, on fait pas semblant* Sometimes, it's not pretend Oderint Dum Metuant Let them hate so long as they fear политики предпочитают безоружных крестьян Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants Nothing to see here, Citizen. Move along now...

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09-18-2006, 10:29 AM	#6
RRRIDER Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 24	Re: Damning Evidence Who knows, some people think Harleys are the best bikes ever made and feel cool cuz they ride one. As advanced and well-made as other brand's motorcycles are, I also wonder why the police force would choose Harley.

09-18-2006, 10:36 AM	#7
RRRIDER Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 24	Re: 'Wobble' to Blame for Officer's Death? Yeah I missed the part that he ran over the concrete bag, then the bike wobbled. I'd be pretty scared if I hit one on my CBR1krr and am pretty sure the bike would unstable itself. Anyways, I would still choose BMW over Harley, especially for police work

09-18-2006, 10:47 AM	#8
Fenton Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Arvada, CO Posts: 1,898	Re: 'Wobble' to Blame for Officer's Death? I have a good friend that had the same type of wobble show up while passing a truck with his Electra-Glide. Scared the crap out of him. He still has it but no longer runs it that hard. He figures his Bigdog is a better high speed bike.

09-18-2006, 10:53 AM	#9
seruzawa Robby Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: 8501 ft. Posts: 16,803	Re: 'Wobble' to Blame for Officer's Death? It's too bad that we have a culture now where everyone who undergoes a personal tragedy believes they have the right to become independently wealthy. I'm very sorry for the officer and his family, but if the same thing happened to me I'd have no one to blame but myself. A professional rider especially should know the capabilities and limitations of his machine and ride it accordingly. I'm sick of paying thousands of dollars each year for the things I buy because of the liability premiums the manufacturers have to carry. Why should they be held liable for the incompetence and bad judgemant of the users? What about the guy that left the bag of cement there? How about suing him? Not deep enough pockets, that's why. Or how about suing the road department for not cleaning up the shoulders? This lawsuit is simply a result of an ambulance chaser coming up with some BS excuse to sue the deep pockets. Damm all bottomfeeding lawyers and the culture of greed that supports this system of shakedowns. __________________ I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.

09-18-2006, 10:58 AM	#10
seruzawa Robby Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: 8501 ft. Posts: 16,803	Re: 'Wobble' to Blame for Officer's Death? Last I saw it is illegal to ride over 85mph. So if you crash don't bother suing HD. __________________ I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.