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Old 09-13-2006, 05:21 PM   #51
bigdx
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Default Re: OTHER CRITERIA BESIDES PRICE?

Sigh



"in the past in both europe and america governments have artificially propped up industry by inposing tariffs on imported goods to make home industry compete ...."



Lets see. The Japanese have been illegally dumping on the US market for about 5 decades. The Chinese do the same and are quite openly artificially deflating their currency to achieve a trade advantage.



"effectively subsidising poor businesses that doesnt seem like any kind of long term plan"



Mmm, yeah, you must be right. The Japanese subsidizing major Japanese industries enabling them to dump on US markets sure put Japan in the poor house today.



BTW Tariffs, subsidies and other economic aid startegies benefit a local economy on both long and short term. You need to go back to school.

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Old 09-13-2006, 06:36 PM   #52
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Default Re: OTHER CRITERIA BESIDES PRICE?

That will look good on your job resume...WE are the market the global economy is trying to reach...but keep buying the forien crap...just dont cry too hard when you take the paycuts/benefit cuts your purchasing decisions will force on you.
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Old 09-14-2006, 02:34 AM   #53
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Default Re: BMW vs Harley Police Motorcycle debate Revs Up in CO.

Even if 1 mile = 100, I still have you beat by many hundreds. I have boots with more miles on em then you ever rode. So you're a Willow Springs expert? Let's go. I'm ready. How about you? I bet you aren't. My playbook is to tell the truth. That is something you can never handle. You never rode either bike, yet somehow know everything about them, right? How did that happen? There is nothing wrong with a BMW that I know of, but since I never rode one, I wouldn't give my uninformed opinion as to which bike is better. That would be called 'talking out your ass', something you are very adept at. So in that old Fox News/ Red State ( by the way, Illinois is a Blue State MORON!) longride way, I exposed you again. Come again anytime.
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Old 09-14-2006, 02:43 AM   #54
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Default Ha! What do you know?

Kpaul says the BMW is better! Are you a Red Stater? Do you watch Fox News? Did you see his KPPI index? Owning and riding the bikes just clouds the true facts and data presented to us by the master himself. Maybe you can meet us a Willow Springs in 50 years!
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Old 09-14-2006, 03:24 AM   #55
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Default Re: BMW vs Harley Police Motorcycle debate Revs Up in CO.

The comments section in the article is interesting and I would encourage everyone to examine it. There's a post from a motor officer (I presume that means bike cop) who's tested multiple variants (BMW, H-D, Yamaha, Honda). He praises the Harley for low-speed handling, but says that they're toilet at high speed.



Now for your economics lesson. "Buying American", unless there is a strategic goal of preserving and subsidizing American manufacturing capability, results in a mis-allocation of resources. American industry is good at some things (airplanes) and bad at others (I know some people LIKE Harley Davidson, but that doesn't mean that they are objectively "good" - some people like vintage cars, too - like me - even though I recognize that they are objectively inferior in most respects). In short, it costs a lot more over even the medium term - our economy is relatively agile (witness 2001 - today in terms of reallocation of capital) - to buy inferior products just for the sake of "buying American". And it actually has two effects; one is a similar economic effect to raising taxes - it increases structural unemployment, reduces capital formation and wealth blah blah blah you know the rest. The second is that it actually pays American industry to not adapt. The 787 probably wouldn't have been built, for example, if Congress had decided to subsidize Boeing for an A380 equivalent (yes yes, the airling industry is complex an inter-woven with defense etc. but the simple point holds).



In this debate, I'm not certain that one or the other choice is correct. For example, the air-cooled R1200 BMWs are fairly low-maintenance; the K-bikes I can't comment on, but I suspect that they are spendier. So you get into a discussion about relative performance versus maintenace, the officers in question wanted BMW, and there you have it.



cdg
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Old 09-14-2006, 04:01 AM   #56
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Default Re: BMW vs Harley Police Motorcycle debate Revs Up in CO.

I still don't understand all this "inferior product" and "poor reliability" stuff thrown at Harleys. This isn't the AMF era, you know. I've always ridden sport bikes, but bought an XL1200R just for fun a couple of years ago. Great bike, simple and low maintenance, terrific fuel economy. I notice when I'm out on the Daytona that it is fairly trendy for sport bikers to act superior while trash talking Harley products, but most of the talking is done by folks who've never owned--or even ridden--what they love to hate. I really think that some of the motive behind this is affirmation that we made the right decision in buying sportbikes that throw our butts up in the air and cripple our wrists, instead of the "slow, archaic HD" which also happens to be comfortable and relaxing. All in all, this sort of BS trashing of bikes done in ignorance is why I rarely hang with other motorcyclists of any type.



To wrap up my rant, I will mention that there are two ways to achieve performance:



*Smaller, highly engineered, tuned, and stressed engines that deliver good power per displacement unit, yet because of their high stress are more maintenance intensive and likely to last a shorter time (i.e. my sportscar)



*Larger, mechanically simple, and understressed engines which deliver comparitively low power per displacement unit, yet because of their low stress are less maintenance intensive and likely to last a longer time (i.e. my truck)



Both approaches meet their design parameters well; the difference is the parameters themselves. And differences often scare people, who then deride each other while suffering their own doubts and secret fears. I think people like that should simply move into gated communities and let the rest of us get on with making the world go round.
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Old 09-14-2006, 04:14 AM   #57
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Default Re: OTHER CRITERIA BESIDES PRICE?

yeah back to school ...tell me about the record losses ford etc are making right now ...and how this fits into your theory? ...btw the price of a japanese car in europe is very similiar to the price in the usa ....but european manufacturers compete on price with them...



you need to go back to school ...hey i dont mind any kind of debate but why with you does it always descend into name calling ...or is that the link to the school analogy ..try to be less insular in your thinking and less afraid of the outside world ...we are not all out to get america you know
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Old 09-14-2006, 04:22 AM   #58
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Default Re: BMW vs Harley Police Motorcycle debate Revs Up in CO.

As a late-model BMW owner, I was ready to come down on the side of BMW when I looked at the title to this story. But upon further reflection, I've changed my mind. Last weekend, I was trying to hook up with some buddies and stopped at a gas station to make a call. I got directions, hopped on my GS, started it up, and took off. Well, one thing none of you geniuses has pointed out yet is that the BMWs go through a diagnostic procedure at startup that takes several seconds. Since I sped off before it was through, my speedometer read zero and I got a flashing "brake failure" sign until I stopped and started again. Not exactly confidence inspiring in a chase scenario. Secondly, BMWs are NOT reliable. Yes, the engines are designed to go forever, but they are plagued with small problems resulting in lots of down time, and they are notorious for final drive failures. I've owned three BMWs ... two I bought, and a third they gave me when they couldn't fix the second one. Lastly, the resale argument clinches it.
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Old 09-14-2006, 06:33 AM   #59
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Default Re: OTHER CRITERIA BESIDES PRICE?

As far as I know, no tariffs have been placed on imported motorcars, so why I need to use Ford as illustration of what I have posted is somewhat beyond me.



HD is a shining example of how tariffs enabled the company to turn around and become a success.



"...btw the price of a japanese car in europe is very similiar to the price in the usa ....but european manufacturers compete on price with them..."



You mean "European Manufacturers" like Daimler Chrysler? And of course we all know of successful European manufacturers like Leyland that is going from strength to strength.



"...or is that the link to the school analogy"



you make a statement that economic protectionism has negative long term effect. Not true bub. Go back to school.



"try to be less insular in your thinking and less afraid of the outside world ...we are not all out to get america you know"



So funny. You are out to get us? Hahahahaha. Pathetic. Donald was spot on when he pegged you as "old Europe". You folks suffer from delusions of adequacy.

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Old 09-14-2006, 06:50 AM   #60
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Default Re: BMW vs Harley Police Motorcycle debate Revs Up in CO.

Well lets peel all of the foreign made parts off of the HD and see whats left.



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