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Old 06-12-2006, 05:55 AM   #31
oldtim
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Default Re: European Beaucrats Want 650cc Single Automatics.

No, not really but all and still this is a really bad idea. There are so many who think they can run our lives better than we can. The left wants to be sure we don't hurt ourselves, while the right wants to me sure we don't sin and those of us in the middle just want to be let alone...
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Old 06-12-2006, 05:56 AM   #32
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Default Re: European Beaucrats Want 650cc Single Automatics.

EVERYTHING that becomes law in EU somehow makes it's way into law in the US. Don't fool yourself into thinking that our BELOVED politicians won't stab all of the motorcyleing community in the back if they see an angle that can put money into their polictical pockets.
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Old 06-12-2006, 06:26 AM   #33
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Default Re: European Beaucrats Want 650cc Single Automatics.

You're going to have a hard time convincing me that a rise in motorcycle sales (especially in the US) leads to a decline in auto sales.



I'll bet the number of people who cross shop car vs. bike is insignificant. I just can't see the bigwigs at GM sitting around saying, "If we could just get people to stop buying motorcycles, our market share would go way up! Screw Honda and Toyota!"
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Old 06-12-2006, 07:00 AM   #34
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Default Re: European Beaucrats Want 650cc Single Automatics.

I don't know, Buz. I mean history is full of companies that made incredibly stupid decsions based on weird ideas. A prime example was the decision of the US auto industry in the 60's to purposefully build cars poorly so as to increase their repeat sales (they thought). Instead they drove customers by the millions to Japanese cars.



Or how about BSA's decison to invest a shytpot full of money in trikes 'cause some genius thought that trikes would be the wave of the future? Bankrupted the company.



I can easily see some MBAed twit blaming the drop in car sales on motorcycles in order to deflect attention from his own incompetence.
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Old 06-12-2006, 07:16 AM   #35
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Default Re: European Beaucrats Want 650cc Single Automatics.

I recently visited a client who had so much crap and disorganization on her desk. When I walked into her office, she looked at me and laughed and said, "Talk about job security, eh?"
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Old 06-12-2006, 08:21 AM   #36
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Default Re: European Beaucrats Want 650cc Single Automatics.

Still not paying attention... I in no way said that the auto industry and motorcycle industry sales are tied together. I said that the lobby from the auto industry is trying to get the "feel good, nanny state" politicians to feel sorry for them. If the auto industry can get the EU to regulate the motorcycle industry (remember the 80's and the cc embargo for HD) then sales will naturally fall off for bikes because they become undesirable for future buyers. If you can't sell your standard superstock bike to the customer why sell anything? That's where this is going. Three years from now either all h*ll is going to break loose from this idea or it will fade because of consumer outrage.
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Old 06-12-2006, 08:44 AM   #37
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Default Re: European Beaucrats Want 650cc Single Automatics.

And following that report's "logic," that would be a *one cylinder* BMW 7-series to boot.
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Old 06-12-2006, 09:49 AM   #38
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Default Re: European Beaucrats Want 650cc Single Automatics.

Your argument still doesn't hold water. You haven't made the case WHY the auto industry through political lobbying would WANT motorcycle sales to suffer.



The H-D embargo had nothing to do with the auto industry and is not a valid comparison for your point. Whatever your point is.



I'm gonna go out on a limb and say most motorcycle owners own cars too. The "motorcycle only" types are a very small percentage.
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Old 06-12-2006, 12:50 PM   #39
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Default Re: European Beaucrats Want 650cc Single Automatics.

Why is it so hard to believe that an industry that competes (regardless of product) with another industry would want sales to suffer for the competitor? The auto lobby has used "safety" for years in selling autos. Why wouldn't they take advantage of this and ask legislators to create laws to benefit the product they lobby for. The auto industry is using manipulated data to underscore that bikes with performance levels the EU declares as "high performance" to kill our beloved motorcycle industry. Do you think that these Euro-weenies can think of all of this by themselves? I think not. There is an effort from the competition (auto makers) to shut down their competition (bike makers). Why? Simple- auto makers are making vehicles that get great milaege but they can't sell them if you're buying bikes. If Honda is selling a car (let's say the Fit because it's new and gets 40mpg) for $12K and a CBR1000RR for $11K which has the higher profit margin? If you answered the car you are correct. Margins on most bikes sold are very low in the grand scheme of global economics. So, it's easier to kill the motorcycle industry off than to let it compete head to head. The Euro-weenies believe it's in the best interest of people to regulate what they can ride. That's funny coming from the very same people that make the fastest performance cars in the world. As far as the HD reference is concerned, Harley could not compete on the playing field in the 70's-90 or so. So, they asked Congress for an embargo based on C.C. size. It worked long enough for HD to survive. They made a better product and the embargo was lifted. HD took perfectly good bikes like the V-Max and the Eliminator 1000 and virtually stopped production because they had the right ear in Congress. Same holds true today in the EU.
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Old 06-12-2006, 01:08 PM   #40
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Default Re: European Beaucrats Want 650cc Single Automatics.

I guess you're still not getting my point which is autos and motorcycles are NOT competitors.



There is not a person on earth who has cross-shopped a Honda Fit against a CBR1000.



I know the H-D story but Harley wasn't an auto manufacturer trying to get an advantage. They are a motorcycle manufacturer. I know H-D was making a low quality bike at the time however, don't forget the Japanese are very skilled at illegal "dumping."



I understand how lobbying works and I totally agree with you regarding Euroweenies however I cannot be persuaded to think a target in the sites of the auto industry is a motorcycle.



Eliminating motorcycles from the face of the Earth would do nothing to increase auto sales. Perhaps a fraction of a percentage but that's it.
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