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Old 02-16-2001, 01:56 PM   #1
CBR1000F
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Default Re: One Man

First post!



I don't think you sound like a crybaby, but this is one of the things that makes America a great country... If you build a product, and you price it too high (Like EH has done) and it doesn't sell, it's because it does not have value to the consumer that the producer believes it does. If they'd offer something that was reasonably priced when compared to other companies producing similiar machines, they'd do fine. Or they wouldn't, if their product got a bad reputation... look at what happened to HD during the AMF years.
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Old 02-16-2001, 02:20 PM   #2
bimota
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Default Die Hards Die Hard

I have many of the same feelings about Bimota. But it doesn't matter, they're about to go out of business too. I think they have/had a great product line-up. I think a SB8 could beat an RC51, Mille R, or 996 R in a direct test. But you know what? It doesn't matter. Bimota is run by fools. They never marketed them. They just think "We'll build a couple hundred and someone will buy them." But that's not true, and they're dead. They have no brand image, no advertising, no dealers, and they don't make their bikes available to the press. You need a good business to go with your good product.
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Old 02-16-2001, 02:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: One Man

the Excelsior is a fine motorcycle, having serviced & ridden a few myself. E-H has a few problems, one with selling the bike for less money than a comparable H-D, and management not suited to start up a manufacturing company selling high end motorcycles. But, Dodge was bailed out by uncle Sam, thus Dodge is on the pole in the biggest race in its sport(read mondo free advertisement), H-D was bailed out by the government and has prospered also(dimwitted management decisions & all) for if Sam doesnt bail them out, I, for one will be sad to see E-H go
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Old 02-16-2001, 02:49 PM   #4
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Default Re: One Man

Socialism is a dubious policy for luxury items.
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Old 02-16-2001, 02:56 PM   #5
lexs
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Default Re: One Man

So lets look at this:



They built an ugly, badly functioning bike and charged to much for it and I should support them out of pride in America?



Sorry big guy, in my America people who build products that don't sell go out of business. It is a system you may have heard of, it is called capitalism. The other system produces bikes as ugly as the EH, anybody out there ride a Jawa or an old style MZ?



I'm not a big Harley fan but I respect them for building what people want, if EH can't do that they should shut down and stop whining.



I work for an American company that makes products that dominate their market around the world. I don't think any company, especially an American company, should need pity sales. Compete or die.

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Old 02-16-2001, 03:08 PM   #6
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Default "Create jobs"

Create jobs? Now here is a common misconception. You call Japanese cruisers dogs--and I think your reasoning is weak on this stance, especially with innovative ones such as the Valkyrie and the Magna--but you seem to forget that all those Japanese cruisers are built in the US. Hell, most of the Big-4 cruisers you see in the US aren't even available in Japan--they're US domestic only. Shadows and V-Stars and such are built in the US by American workers.
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Old 02-16-2001, 04:00 PM   #7
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Default Re: One Man

I have a very bad opinion of Americans ( like most Europeans do ), because ( generally ) they're moronistic, brainwashed, egocentric mindless robots. But...

This man totally made sense. If Americans are so proud of their own culture ( if such thing exist at all ), their own product or heritage, they would save this company, just for a sake of it. Like Italians saved Bimota, MV Agusta or Benelli. Because they're enthusiasts as well. Not only businessmen. They're true petrolheads as well and they willing to sacrifice if their national valuables are in crisis. That's why Rossis, Biaggis, or Fogartys are national heros. Kenny Roberts had a 9 page interview in a Brit magazine and for comparison, Cycle World had some 4 lousy pages with him, which in details or style don't even comes close to the Euro-mags' interviews. Same happened with Edwards. I guess that's part of the reason why the american motorcycle culture is about 10 years behind of Europe.

Compete or die. Exactly. Good for you.

Harley does not build bikes people want. They have a group of brilliant marketing sharks and they make people believe that the greatest thing on Earth is to own a " piece of America, a true American homemade pie " a Harley ( made in elsewhere, with cheaper labor, which is OK, I guess...it's capitalism, gentlemen... but don't tell anyone...). And you know', it's really sad, how they're cheat on people. Lie or die. That's a name of the game here. There are a very few quality American products out there. Why? Because it's not worth it to make any. No. The money they save on low quality, underengineered, bootlegged products, they put it in marketing. Works like magic. You can sell the worse piece of crap, if you market it right. And that's what's happening. Think about Harley or the Corvette for instance.

I call it lie.

Finally, there's something which could be good. For a change. And you guys come up with this " compete or die " . Probably you still believe that America is the greatest...right?

Anyway, it's really refreshing to know that there are guys out there, who honestly believe that something is not kosher. Yeah, it would be great to save Exclesior-Henderson. But, there's no chance. $$$ speaking, dreamers are dying.

Oh, one more thing: don't flex on my grammar. I speak your language much better, than you'd speak mine.
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Old 02-16-2001, 04:54 PM   #8
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Default ITALY SAVED BIMOTA!?

Italy saved Bimota!? Do you mean in the last month, or are you talking about years ago? And if it isn't recent Bimota news that I missed, where are the Italians now?

And while we're on Bimota, let me say this about the government saving businesses: Why should the government spend the people's money to save a business that has been mismanaged, and/or run into the ground? As I said earlier, I think Bimota's great. But they've been ruined by a complete lack of business sense. No advertising? No bikes for magazines to test? No attempt to construct a brand image? I live in Las Vegas, a rapidly growing city of 2,000,000+. There's no dealer anywhere near here. All the government money in the world won't save Bimota or any other company if they won't fix the problems that killed the company in the first place. Then all you have is a complete waste of taxpayer money, your money, the citizen's money holding some idiot businessman's mistakes afloat.
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Old 02-16-2001, 05:24 PM   #9
AstonMartin
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Default Re: ITALY SAVED BIMOTA!?

Well, I agree on the fact that they're weren't business oriented. But they've made excellent motorbikes. I can see the theory behind it, though...The Bimota has always been exclusive. They didn't advertise their bikes too much, because people find them regardless, and they sold their bikes. The problem was, the production costs were too high... Exclusivity trap...but still...brilliant bikes.
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Old 02-16-2001, 05:53 PM   #10
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Default Bimota

Bimota is not exclusive. At least in America, they're an off brand, like Laverda and Moto Guzzi. I've seen them sell for under MSRP. That's a good indicator that no one wants them. And if they were exclusive, they could charge more for them, and people would happily pay it. Look at the price on a Bentley if you don't believe me. That was part of Bimota's problem. They didn't have an brand image at all.
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