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Old 02-19-2001, 08:06 AM   #41
Gabe
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Default AND

Very well hidden- we spend way, way more as a society paying for corporate welfare and white-collar crime. Trillions of dollars. Go look at any number of web sites about the massive giveaway to corporations and the wealthy.
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Old 02-19-2001, 08:28 AM   #42
LimeSqueezr
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Default Of course you can compare them or I can compare them...

A Camaro is a car and the Audi TT is a car. That's about all they have in common. The Audi TT is a better car but it costs more so it damn well ought to be.



A BMW X5 and a Lincoln Navigator are both SUVs for posers who don't need an SUV and both made in America. Both are too expensive. However, the Navigator can actually carry a lot of heavy gear across rough terrain without self-destructing which is what an SUV is supposed to do in the first place, because it's based on a Ford F150 truck not a freakin' sports sedan of all the ridiculous platforms to put an SUV on. So it is the better SUV.



A Caddy and an Aston-Martin are also both cars. They have even less in common than a Camaro and an Audit TT and a humongously bigger price differential. Yet the Northstar engine is more advanced. Go figure. So the Ford Navigator wins in your comparo but the Ford Volante loses. You *were* aware that an Aston-Martin is just another product from the Found_On_Road_Dead folks weren't you? Next year the huts at Ford may decide to make Aston-Martins in Mexico, who knows or cares for that matter.



BTW I drive a BMW (made in South Carolina, USA) but at least it's a real car not some kind of mongrel abomination. And I ride a British motorcycle. Don't ask me why because I'm quite sure I don't know except that I like it. I ride it for the same reason other people ride Harleys, I suppose.
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Old 02-19-2001, 11:34 AM   #43
Wolvie
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Default Re: One Man

Listen up Corky,...It's Wolvie, not Wolfie. Or is that the cretin translation?



Wow, you are truly so brilliant in your assumption of not only my IQ...but of what I ride. (Nudges Rod & grins.)



I won't bother to state what Rod did about the defunct countries you were so nice to copy from your "Intro to motorcycles guide"...he did a better job that I could.



What I will state is that, like most socially retarded individuals, you take the opportunity to bash America on a website forum about motorcycles. You claim we have the highest debt? Then pay us back the money you owe us. Sounds simple, right? Oh wait...it was you that sounded simple. Or was that diagnosed...?



7 years in the states, huh? Did you know prison doesn't count?



Please stay the hell where you are...we wouldn't want you raising the national intelligence standard by moving out....not that you have the nuts to even say where that is.



LOL...what a total & complete loser. Don't take it too bad though...I'm sure next time your country is in over it's head (by a gang of hostile paraplegics armed with a stapler no doubt), you'll be happy to call on the good ol' USA to bail your sorry, useless, helpless, hapless & hopeless butts out of trouble...AGAIN!

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Old 02-20-2001, 12:50 AM   #44
jota
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Default Re: One Man

Haru,

I also am not an American and I dislike the jingoism that I see here on both sides, but let's not kid ourselves that America has a squeaky-clean record. Yes, European countries did colonise a lot of the world at one time, but America was just another colony until they decided to start running the show themselves, and when they did they started a policy of genocide against the Native Americans in order to take the land for themselves. America was also the last Western country to give up slavery, and even after they did, lynching and other atrocities were commonplace and were ignored by government for decades in order to keep black people as virtual slaves.

Thankfully those days are now over, as are the days of colonisation. Let's stop slinging mud and accept the fact that history is full of shameful episodes not restricted to any area or ethnic group. I'd like to think that the human race is getting past the time when anyone in another country is seen as somehow inferior and doomed to answer for the sins of his ancestors forever.

I like America and Americans. I also like Europe and Europeans. From what I have seen of other parts of the world, people generally are OK, it's just from looking at history too selectively that we sometimes get that xenophobia which dignifies no-one. Referring to all Europeans as 'you people' is the first step along that road.
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Old 02-20-2001, 10:01 AM   #45
d_0_b_victory
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Default Re: One Man

i started reading this post, looking forward to an insightful, informed opinion about e-h and their present situation....however i stopped at the part where the author said that the VICTORY motorcycle was made in canada...so much for an informed opinion.



the author lost all credibility, and i didn't finish reading the post.



victorys are made in the USA. polaris industries, their parent company, is an american company based in minneapolis, minnesota (hmm...the same place as excelsior-henderson...duh). polaris has been around for about 50 years and are the world's largest manufacturer of snowmobiles, largest manufacturer of automatic transmition ATVs (2nd largest in overall ATVs), a major player in the personal watercraft arena after only a few years.



and now, with victory (which has won two consecutive cruiser of the year awards) they've broken into the heavyweight cruiser market...in a BIG way.



buy the book "the victory motorcycle - the making of a new american motorcycle" and learn a little about the company, the people, the development and the bike....better yet, go to your nearest victory dealer and test ride one for an hour or two....something few other dealers will allow you to do. trust me, you'll buy one.



d-0-b

double-0-black

2000 victory v92c

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Old 02-20-2001, 10:01 AM   #46
hamatsu
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Default Re: Moron with a capital M.

How did this thread get posted here ? This was supposed to be about an American motorcycle company being poorly managed and finally going belly up. Aston Martin...please, they were crap cars to begin with, no wonder you use that as your i.d.. I'm glad you don't like America cause we sure don't need narrow minded people like you in this country. America RULES !!! That's something I think you already know. Obviously you don't know sh*t about facts concerning Italian motorcycles. Bimota and MV are looking at the chopping block as I write this. Benelli only in the past 2 or 3 years started making "real" motorcycles again. If not for a group of investors from America...Ducati would have gone to the the chopping block as well.

I'm surprised you can breathe with your head shoved so far up your rectum.(probably not the only thing that goes up there either...gerbil boy) What makes you think you can speak english better than anyone here can speak whatever your language is ? What is it anyway ? I guess you must enjoy getting flamed by everyone on this board cause that's the only reason I can think of that you would even post dribble like that. Do the terms arrogant and ignorant register with you ?

People say "compete or die" because that's what drives capitalism and a market economy. Not being taxed to death by the government to help every struggling company out. Finally, the reason Kenny Jr. doesn't get much press here in the states is because (sad, but true) motorcycle racing isn't mainstream like it is in Europe. You should crawl back into the hole you came out of.
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Old 02-20-2001, 10:47 AM   #47
Wolvie
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Default Re: One Man

Yeah it has been awhile. I started posting again when MO removed the "Squids" ability to post. Of course now that I'm back to posting, MO is gonna start charging. (sigh) Guess I'll have to head over to the site you mentioned as I don't think I'll be paying either. (EXCELLENT article BTW!)



I can't do the Sturgis Edition EH this year 'cause I'm saving up for a "Screaming Chicken". (J/K!)



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Old 02-20-2001, 11:45 AM   #48
jel
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Default Re: Boringly typical anti-American socialist Eurodrivel...

Your version of computer history is amusing. The first transistor was invented by John Bardeen and Walter Brattain of Bell Labs in 1948, in the US, patent 2,524,035. The first mass-produced version by Fairchild Semiconductor, in the US. The first integrated circuit was invented at by J.L Kilby at Texas Instruments in 1959, patent 3,138,743, in the US. Random Access Memory invented by J.W. Forrester, patent 2,736,880, in the US. The first digital computer (the Atanasoff-Berry Computer) was invented at Iowa State Univeristy in 1941, in the US, but never patented. The first microprocessor, the 4004, was invented by Intel, in the US. Intel also invented the first DRAM chip in 1970, the 1103, rendering magnetic core memories instantly obsolete. The Internet and its protocols are the evolution of DARPANET, from the US (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency). The telephone, the fax machine, the "Xerox" machine, the camcorder, the GUI...all American inventions. Windows, MacOS, OS/2, Unix... all made in America.



As for cars, what is your opinion of Opel? Or Volvo? Both are Ford. So is Mazda. Arguing which car is best is pointless, and unless you've actually driven all the cars you listed, your opinion is at best incomplete. Car preferences, like motorcycle preferences, are subjective. Which one is best? Why, MINE of course.



Oh, and for gorgeous girls (who shave), good food, and good wine you should come to California. Even the 40-year-olds are babes.

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Old 02-21-2001, 04:07 AM   #49
CBR1000Fdude
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Default Re: Government funded private sector business

I agree with you that the EH is a beautiful motorcycle. I've seen them at trade shows. Does that mean my tax dollars are supposed to go to a company with a failing marketing strategy? I don't think so. You may like them, but I will never buy one, and I don't want any of my money going to support a private sector company that fails to support itself. They are not critical to the infrastructure of the USA.



It's very narrow minded and self centered to even propose that moneys that are supposed to benefit the majority would even be considered for supporting a failing motorcycle company, or any private sector company for that matter. It would be sad to see HD go out of business if we were talking about them, but I would be irrate if our government felt it was necessary to "support" such a company. Businesses with great ideas do not mean businesses with profitable ideas.
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Old 03-21-2001, 04:33 PM   #50
zipfinger
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Default Re: One Man

Dear Sir; While you are correct in stating that E-H is an original "clean sheet of paper" design, and could have/ should have been a contender in the heavyweight market (even at that price point) you are overlooking the fundumental reason for their failure. Dave and Dan Hanlon are the reason for the nightmare, plain and simple. I will give them credit for the balls to try a new business venture, but they were quickly consumed by arrogance and personal greed. Remember, they had $300 million in start-up money,and a commitment from the state for tax abatement. Gee-whiz, how do you lose $300M in a cornfield in Minnesota? Take one look at that shrine they built to themselves and you'll have your first clue. Even after they were forced into bankruptcy, during the re-structuring phase, they made sure that the new investors (suckers) money paid them EACH a salary of $150,00.00 per year! And that was after they had broken the backs of all their original investors, and taken the State of Minnesota to the cleaners! The only people who deserve any pity here are the folks that went to work for these jerks thinking they were going to have a piece of a dream, well, some dreams turn into nightmares Frank. As far as your bike shooting up in value-I think your nightmare has just begun.
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