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Old 01-15-2006, 08:38 AM   #21
nitrofly
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Default Re: Motorcycle Industry Council joins forces to keep OHV use open in Nat'l Parks.

So you're saying we should cut them down at night?
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Old 01-15-2006, 09:34 AM   #22
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Default Re: Motorcycle Industry Council joins forces to keep OHV use open in Nat'l Parks.

If the Sierra Club is not an abortion, I don't know what is.
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Old 01-15-2006, 03:21 PM   #23
ddlewis
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Default Re: Motorcycle Industry Council joins forces to keep OHV use open in Nat'l Parks.

Over 99% of the USA's forests have disappeared in the last 200 years





The above has got to be a big fat crock of pure crap. There is no way that 99% of the forests of 200 years ago are gone. Please back that one up.. if you can.



I don't think anyone expects or wants every bit of National Park land to be open to OHV, but surely a little could. It's public land after all. A little set aside here with managed trails systems will not end life on earth.



I do agree that a large percentage of off-roaders have little respect for the land and have given us a deserved bad rep. (and they mostly ride quads That needs to change..
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Old 01-15-2006, 05:08 PM   #24
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Default Re: Motorcycle Industry Council joins forces to keep OHV use open in Nat'l Parks.

I've had some time to think about this article, and the responses that followed. As I expected, there is lots of misconception and missunderstanding all around.



First point. Off-road motorcycles are NOT ALLOWED in National Parks. They never will be. The only "OHVs" that I know of that ARE allowed in national parks are snowmobiles, and that is the whole thrust of this effort. There MIGHT be an effort to restrict dual-sport bikes from roadways, such as the BMWs and Buells that folks here seem to be into, but I haven't heard of it.



Second point. When left to their own decision-making capacity, local managers of national park and forest lands seem to have done an excellent job of balancing the competing wants and needs of the land under their custody. Unfortunately, these managers are under constantly increasing political pressure from all sides. I am glad that the people I know in this profession are as good as they are at their jobs.



Third point. What/who are the real problem here? IMNSHO, quads (4 wheelers, ATVs, 4WDs) have completely destroyed the way off-road riding is done. Now, any idiot can do it. And idiots they are. It used to be, the skill level required to master a two-wheeler kept the real nut jobs out of the dirt. Now, quads and the constantly diminishing cost (relatively speaking) of off-road vehicles are letting more and more idiots out there. Not only that, but quads do much more damage to the trail network than bikes ever did. Ask any NETRA member.



Fourth point. The dirt riders I know are not uneducated, mother earth raping Phillistines. We are just looking for that magic moment on the perfect trail, the perfect turn , the most excellent hillclimb, the challenge and accomplishment of the long trail ride, the finisher pin at the end of the enduro or desertt race. We are just like you road-only guys. Believe it.



Fifth point. Opportunities for off-road riding on public land are rapidly decreasing. That is a fact of life. 10 years ago I predicted that there would be no off-road riding on public lands at all in 10 years. I was wrong. My point is, with the increasing popularity of MX/SX, there are going to be lots of people riding illegally. What exactly do you off-road "Antis" propose doing with them? Throw them all in jail? I guess we could all surrender, and let all our kids play video games, but that's not in me. I am at a loss what to do.



Sixth point. If you made it this far, and have been following MO for a while, you know that I am an off-road enthusiast. I have ridden in the wilds of New England, and the deserts of the West and Mexico. I truly love off-road riding. I see street riding as something functional, and as a fix when I can't ride off-road, which is more and more these days. I truly don't know how long I'll be able to enjoy off-road riding. There is little sympathy for us guys in the general public. I could go on about how this reflects the increasing "video gaming" of society and our youth, but I won't go there.



Seventh point. Off-road riding, as I know and love it, will not last forever in the US (We'll end up going to Mexico, or CANADA HAHAHAHA!!!) in its current form. If you haven't tried it yet, I INSIST that you get out ther and spin a few knobs. Get tapped out in sixth in an Arizona sandwash. Bash your bars on a hundred Jersey pines. Loop out on a rocky Texas hillclimb. Ride the AMA dual-sport series. Go ahead. You won't regret it, and, 10 years from now, I predict you won't be able to do it.



Hope I'm wrong again.



PP

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Old 01-15-2006, 07:16 PM   #25
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Default Re: Motorcycle Industry Council joins forces to keep OHV use open in Nat'l Parks.

While there are still plenty of forest areas left in Orgegon and elsewhere, it's not just about tree count. It really isn't

A lot of that 'forest' a hundred yards beyond the highway is replanted, managed forest. And while it's cool that a replenishable resource is being, well, replenished, took a closer look.

All the trees are exactly the same height, there's no forest layers or anything. Nothing but deer seem to live there. They're to a great extent, green deserts.

Any thinking person would agree, I think that public lands need to meet a lot of needs. One is for the public to have the use of our forests for recreational and commercial use. There are others that like to hike someplace where they won't hear a motorcycle or snowmobile, and if they're willing to hike a ways to experience it, they should have places to go too.

And critters need a place where they can exist unmolested as well. I see it as one ring, inside another, with no one but naturalists going into the inner circle. What's so damn hard about that?

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Old 01-16-2006, 03:36 AM   #26
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Default Re: Motorcycle Industry Council joins forces to keep OHV use open in Nat'l Parks.

I've read some/most of these replies and I can't believe how rabid OHV users are in defending their "rights". What I haven't seen are many even-handed responses so here's one. I bought two little dirt bikes (CRF150F and a 50)for the kids at Christmas and found out later that, outside of private property, there is virtually no place to ride them legally in the entire northern half of New Jersey (and precious few in the south). While I think that that policy (supported by the NJDEP and private enviro-concerns) is ridiculous, I can understand why both local and state policymakers are against the use of OHVs on public land. Too many folks who ride OHVs are irresponsible. The damage they do is obvious and detrimental to a forest ecosystem. Until that changes and OHV users police themselves, these anti-OHV folks will never relinquish an acre of land for OHV use. Never. The attitudes of the riders must change such that they are seen as preservers instead of destroyers.



What OHV folks do in the face of this dearth of legal riding acreage is to ride everywhere and anywhere they want to and thumb their noses at authority; the catch me if you can mentality. All this does is further make the case for the antis, a never ending downward spiral of the lose-lose scenario. The way out? Stop the detrimental activity and negotiate with state and local groups from a position of sensibility, not stupidity. It would be nice if the industry and dealer networks would take point on this but, from what I can tell, that's a dream. Seems like they'd want to help but apparently enough folks still just buy (like yours truely) without knowing they can't ride (legally anyway). The dealers make their numbers and don't really give a hoot. I don't have the time or the inclination to lead something like what is required to turn things around here in NJ, big time, big energy expended. I'd surely like to be involved, though, in a lasting solution and will keep looking for the right place to insert myself.



My opinions above are based on a lifetime of outdoor activity and observations and about 4 weeks of research and contacts with the Highlands Coalition (anti) and the NJDEP (complacent and heavily influenced by antis) about OHV use. I'm still learning.



Bill
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Old 01-16-2006, 05:46 AM   #27
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Default Re: Motorcycle Industry Council joins forces to keep OHV use open in Nat'l Parks.

Here in OR there's constantly concern that all riding areas will be taken away, but so far we seem to have have escaoed alot of restrictions. I have to agree with the comments that iresponsible use is doing us a lot more harm than good. I recently did a day of trail volunteer work, and returned to ride it a few weekends later and couldn't believe the destruction. Improvised trail created by running down brush in between trails abounded, and sadly I noticed a lot of four wheel tracks having caused it. As a dual sporter I think 80% of the ATV riders are fine, and 20% have no trail ethics at all. If we keep things up like this we'll soon have no trails, and no more volunteers to build and repair them.

So, instead of complaining here about how you're rights are being violated (and they may be), go out and volunteer to do some trail work. Next time you ride you'll probably have a lot more respect for the terrain, and have networked with people who love to ride and to take care of their riding areas.
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Old 01-16-2006, 09:19 AM   #28
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Default Re: Motorcycle Industry Council joins forces to keep OHV use open in Nat'l Parks.

Very well said, here in AZ we have the same problem, 4 wheelers (ATV) blazing trails and destroying not only the woods and desert, but also destroying the way to keeping all of it open for the good guys. What I have been doing lately, is to follow the creeps back to their vehicles, get their license plates down, get some digital pics of the damage and then turning them in to the Forestry Service, the last time I did it they (FS) collected over $3000 in fines, yeah!
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Old 01-16-2006, 10:09 AM   #29
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Default Re: Motorcycle Industry Council joins forces to keep OHV use open in Nat'l Parks.

Yeah, the pine barrens are beautiful and there are tons of sand tracks that just disappear off of every road through there. What's really sad is that developers in this state have laid waste to huindreds of thousands of acres of land and nobody says boo. Yet one guy gets on a dirt bike and everybody's all offended. Look at the environmental disasters that most golf courses are (golfers are quiet though. I don't think that huge tracts should be opened to OHVs but I do think that places should exist where trails are cut and maintained and everybody who wants to, can ride. Done correctly, it doesn't have to be a disaster. Maybe someday...
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Old 01-16-2006, 10:52 AM   #30
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Default Re: No Vehicles in Nat'l Parks.

Thanks. Good thoughts.
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