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Old 12-23-2005, 03:08 AM   #31
BillyO
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Default Re: Motorcycle pollution ''worse than car pollution'', so say the Swiss.

So,let`s form a protest against this communist plot to weaken our ruggedness.

Let us have a "Take your snowmobile to work day",and let them SEE some real polution.

Imagiine all those Polaris 2 strokes commin` down the Ex ways of the world with or without snow and parking in the world cities.

Would go over well say on Miami,L.A.Houston.
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Old 12-23-2005, 03:56 AM   #32
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Default Bad Reporting

No link to the specific study? No title of the study so I can look it up myself? No information on what bikes and cars were tested? No information on who at this institute conducted the study, or who funded it? I'm supposed to simply take you at your word, assume you don't have an agenda, and that the study was properly conducted and unbiased?



In a new study conducted by the prestigious Guy at a Computer Institute, 100% of respondants reported feeling that science reporting is seriously lacking and completely untrustworthy.
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Old 12-23-2005, 06:02 AM   #33
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Default Re: Motorcycle pollution ''worse than car pollution'', so say the Swiss.

Ich habense nicht deutchs spreckt zu ****ke schiestkopff
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Old 12-23-2005, 07:07 AM   #34
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Default No the reporting matches the paper

It's amazing what you can gind out with 5 mins on google and one email to the auther of the paper.



Here is the data from the study paper





A 800 ccm, 4-stroke, 4 cylinders, injection, Controlled 3-way catalyst 1998 32,200 km

B 1150 ccm, 4-stroke, 2 cylinders, injection Controlled 3-way catalyst 1999 31,500 km

C 800 ccm, 4-stroke, 2 cylinders, carburator no catalyst 1993 29,500 km

D 125 ccm, 4-stroke, 1 cylinder, carburator (Scooter) No catalyst 1997 14,000 km

E 125 ccm, 2-stroke, 1 cylinder, carburator (Scooter) Oxidation catalyst 1995 15,500 km

F 50 ccm, 2-stroke, 1 cylinder, carburator (light motorcycle) Oxidation catalyst 1998 11,000 km



The conclusion of the paper says

<blockquote>

VOC inventories are normally based on the regulated emission standards. The results of

these measurements suggest that the emission factors of in-use motorcycles may be

considerably higher. Furthermore, the ECE 40 driving cycle used in the test procedure for

the regulated emissions does not simulate a real-world motorcycle drive. In reality, the

higher dynamics will lead to higher emissions, as shown by the comparison of the ECE

40 driving cycle with the real-world CADC driving cycle. Therefore, the VOC emission

of motorcycles will most probably be underestimated.

Unburned aromatic fuel components (particularly toluene and xylene) made a large

contribution to the ozone-forming potential of the exhaust gas. Lowering the content of

aromatics in the fuel might, therefore, reduce the reactivity of the exhaust gas. However,

because another considerable part of the OP was caused by the non-fuel compounds

ethene and propene, the overall benefit from changing fuel type or quality should be

carefully tested.

The efficiencies of the catalysts were moderate to poor. Moreover, it seems that

full use of the technical potential of controlled three-way catalysts has not been achieved.

Improperly working catalysts could have led to the observed effect of high NOx

concentration or relatively large emissions of pollutants like benzene or formaldehyde.

In the European Community, a new regulation on exhaust emissions for motorcycles

is planned for 2006 (Directive 2202/51/EC). It should bring a significant reduction of the

two-wheel vehicles emissions. The fleet renewal, however, will take years. The results of

these measurements, with two vehicles out of six not fulfilling the emission standards,

suggest an additional and, above all, immediately effective, benefit from periodic

inspections of the in-use vehicles.

</blockquote>



I have the PDF of the paper if anybody wants to read all the fine print.
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Old 12-23-2005, 10:36 AM   #35
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Default Re: No the reporting matches the paper

I'd be interested in the pdf.



ogre104@hotmail.com



Thanks
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Old 12-23-2005, 02:17 PM   #36
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Default Re: No the reporting matches the paper

on the way
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Old 12-24-2005, 10:51 PM   #37
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Default Re: No the reporting matches the paper

It shouldn't be surprising that cleanest motorcycle emissions are far higher than even the "dirtiest" of new cars and light trucks (just about any way you manipulate the data - grams per mile, per unit of fuel burned, by vehicle size, or total pollution). Widespread use of EFI is relatively new to the motorcycle world, but steadily increasing. Until quite recently, manufacturers were concentrating on "rideability" (ex: anybody remember the BMW FI F650s of just a few years ago?) rather than emissions.



While lots of bikes have 2 and 3-way cats on them, and the latest in sophisticated 32-bit ECUs, I've yet to see any that have some sort of feedback (i.e. WEGO or even simple EGO sensors in the exhaust), or a rudimentary EGR setup to control NOx.



True, these systems add weight and complexity to a motorcycle (not to mention expense!), you're going to see more and more of them as we go along.



Typical "smoke ring" 2-strokes are all but dead - Honda doesn't import a single piece of power equipment (leafblowers, generators, et. al.) to the USA that utilizes a 2-stroke engine. Some areas of the country have banned 2-stroke boat engines *entirely* (New England states, primarily)



Someone mentioned in an earlier post about the fuel-efficiency of a friends recalibration on their bike. Manufacturers have to meet certain criteria, and a "best guess" between power, emissions, fuel-efficiency, and rideability is a lot harder than you might think. The problem is thus: The place (stoichometrically speaking) where an engine makes best power is not the same place it meets the cleanest emissions, and that is not where it makes peak fuel-efficiency. And all these places can vary widely between engine designs, or to a lesser extent, between individual engines of the same "family".



One might be surprised at how well a gasoline internal combustion engine can "seem" to run when fueling is calibrated far to the lean or rich side of Stoich.



There's more. Far, far more. But I'm not the one to relate it here (and a poor choice for relating it anyplace else, for that matter!).



Moto-Manufacturers (and the US and Euro EPAs) have known about the pollution for a considerable time. Once they had cages "in line", it was only a matter of time before their dread gaze was turned upon the "Little Polluters".



I'm surprised the Swiss took this long to perform their so-called "study", or were either ignorant or unbelieving of the empirical data compiled by US, UK, and AU pollution-control agencies.



-Scott C.
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Old 12-26-2005, 06:09 AM   #38
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Default Re: Motorcycle pollution ''worse than car pollution'', so say the Swiss.

The less fuel used argument is iffy at best. In the US it seems like most of the bikes sold just don't get any better mileage than a lot of economy cars. Not to mention that cars in carry more people and or stuff. I do love to ride but saving gas is not all that valid unless you are riding a scooter or a sub 600 cc bike.

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Old 12-26-2005, 05:35 PM   #39
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Default Re: Motorcycle pollution ''worse than car pollution'', so say the Swiss.

I would agree on the gas thing, at least from my standpoint. My goldwing gets about 37MPG, which is almost double that of my truck, but I think most cycles likely get much better than that.



However, As low as the MPG is, I still save gas when I ride compared to when I drive. It's also WAY more fun.
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Old 12-28-2005, 12:10 PM   #40
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Default Re: Motorcycle pollution ''worse than car pollution'', so say the Swiss.

Well, the piece is certainly disconcerting but i would like a whole passel of additional info on the test's sponsor, i'd like to see the actual results, i'd like to see the tests replicated, i'd like to know which bikes were tested, what types of fuels were run, whether the bikes were correctly tuned, at what speeds these emissions were ejected at, etc., etc., etc., before i put any faith at all in these results. Frankly, at this point this piece is more anecdotal information than actual "science" reporting.
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