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Old 12-09-2005, 08:10 AM   #51
Abe_Froman
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Default Re: Euro Licensing Model Meets Resistance For Now.

When you march around picking fights, you are likely to create enemies.



I'd be willing to agree if we only consider veterans that fought in wars that were truly defensive, resulted from an unprovoked attack on our own soil, and didn't require massive impropriety by the commander-in-chief to maneuver us into.



Whoops, all the Revolutionary soldiers are dead. No one can vote.
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Old 12-09-2005, 12:49 PM   #52
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Default Re: Euro Licensing Model Meets Resistance For Now.

I believe that Hienlien's use of military service gauranteeing citizenship (at least in Starship Troopers) was a tongue in cheek way of drawing a parable between a militaristic human society, and the insect hive civilization that they were in conflict with. Hienlien was very anti-state you know.
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Old 12-10-2005, 07:17 AM   #53
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Default Re: Euro Licensing Model Meets Resistance For Now.

Having just reread the book, I suspect he was also deriding the rampant humanism that has driven much of societal "development". His overt claim that Man has no innate moral instinct, but only a developed, scientifically quantifiable social conscience is, well, problematic at best. Marx and Neitze never went so far.
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Old 12-10-2005, 07:38 AM   #54
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Default Re: Euro Licensing Model Meets Resistance For Now.

You know, Abe this was supposed to be a slight digression into the relative merits of a theory proposed, perhaps tongue-in-cheek, by an author of sci-fi, much of it military. But since you insist on carrying it to the level of ad hominem attack, unprovoked, I might add...fine, I can go there. Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor also meets your criteria, as does their promulgation of weather baloons filled with incendiary devices over the American pacific northwest.



As for Germany, don't forget the Lusitania. (Sure, yes, she was carrying small arms for Brittish soldiers, but the U-boat commanders had no way of knowing that at the time, thus making it an unprovoked act of war against US property and citizens.) So that takes care of WWII.



Oh, and Abe, there is the trifling matter (I assume you must think it of small consequence, given your studied avoidence of it.) of someone FLYING AN EFFING PLANE INTO OUR BUILDINGS!! Plane and building both filled with our people, clearly on our soil. Although I suppose I understand how three decades of unprecedented financial, military, and medical aid could certainly count as "provocation".



Further, I rather doubt that any veteran who has been under fire, of whom I am one, would be willing to sacrifice the reality of their service on the altar of such ideological criteria.



I wonder, were you also so quick to point out the "massive impropriety" of the CIC during Bosnia? Haiti? Croatia? Somalia? Places where not even he himself tried to explain a national interest?
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Old 12-10-2005, 10:36 PM   #55
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Default Re: Euro Licensing Model Meets Resistance For Now.

I'll see if you can figure it out. The country I currently live in has not started a war in 200 years, although it can crush any of its neighbors. Non-christian. People here are very happy and friendly. Some of the best motorcycling on the planet. MOST BEAUTIFUL women on the planet. Great medical system. Great food. People are very tolerant of all lifestyles And used to adore America. But not anymore thanks to Bush. Got an answer?
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Old 12-11-2005, 07:04 AM   #56
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I believe that What Abe meant was that in the examples you just listed that the US was at least complicit in casting the first stone.
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:19 AM   #57
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It's interesting that you bring up "rampant humanism" while both George Bush, and Osama Bin Ladin believe that they are fighting on the side of God in this current battle, filled with religious prattle from their personal views of this conflict.
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Old 12-11-2005, 02:01 PM   #58
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Thailand?
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Old 12-12-2005, 06:33 AM   #59
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Default Re: Euro Licensing Model Meets Resistance For Now.

An entirely reasonable statement. I do submit to you though, humbly, that though both men invoke the Almighty, there may be cause to suspect the sincerity of each. Which topic would a make wonderfully enjoyable, but long, discussion. Indeed, we could probably each make the argument for both men, or against them, as we chose.
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Old 12-12-2005, 06:05 PM   #60
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Default Re: Euro Licensing Model Meets Resistance For Now.

You got it. I will die here. The day to day is just excellent. My girlfriend would be a model in America and is so sweet.

I also want to assure that I do not just blast America. Many other countries behave as badly or worse. Listening England and Australia?

The bottom line is there is enough to go around. To quote a friend "if it weren't for war we could all be working 4 days a week".

To revert back to motorcycling. Other than small bikes that most euros and Americans would call a scooter, the only 100% legal bikes here are BMWs. Most other big Japanese bikes are stolen, shipped in as parts and reassembled and sold. But not all are stolen. I have seen Hayabusas here. The 2 most popular bikes here are Blackbirds and ZX-9Rs. For a naked bike it is the CB1. I think that is the name. The 1,000CC Honda with no fairings. I have seen a few Triumphs and Ducatis and they have track days down south. And speeding tickets are as common as hen's teeth.
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