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KPaulCook 12-04-2003 09:18 AM

Re: ATF Bags 55 Hell's Angels
Excellent. Puts things in prespective.

KPaulCook 12-04-2003 09:21 AM

Re: ATF Bags 55 Hell's Angels
You think H.A.s read MO. I hope not otherwise I'm dead. :) My wife said MO was going to ....

sqidbait 12-04-2003 09:45 AM

Re: a whole quarter pound of
I totally agree that the war on drugs is a waste of time. One would think people would have learned the lessons from Prohibition, but I guess not.

However, currently drugs *are* illegal, and the warfare over the drug trade is over the top. If the bikers were quietly killing each other off, personally I wouldn't care. But they aren't. Innocents are getting killed in the crossfire, and the bikers *have* targetted folks outside the criminal subculture.

So, with this in mind, I fully support the police cracking down on these folks.

Do you feel that law enforcement should just shrug their shoulders and let the criminals have at it?

-- Michael

BrowningBAR 12-04-2003 11:27 AM

Re: let's try a different maybe
Well, ok. At least there's more thought to it than the standard "guns are bad". I agree, 11 year old Africans kids shouldn't be playing with AKs. But don't you think the political structure (or lack there of) has more to do with children partaking in civil unrest than it does with the gun manufacturer?

My exwife is from African. Africa is pretty screwed up. It's not like the kids are goin' to the local gun store and pickin' up the hardware.

And no, you won't see 10-15 year olds riding gixxers. They can't afford it. But as a child I really want something like that, though.

Holy_Kaw 12-04-2003 01:35 PM

Re: ATF Bags 55 Hell's Angels
It's Excellent! Hi profile, bad guy getting, motorcyclists slamming... all from the people that brought us Waco. 2 Years, 700 agents and undercover operations get us enough drugs to keep the better known (thousands of times more successful) contemporary gangs supplied for 5 minutes!, and maybe even a suspected murder... To think I used to believe the Government would waste extravagant amounts of money in ineffectual grandstanding all to secure the "Law and Order" vote.

justaspeedfreak 12-04-2003 03:25 PM

Re: ATF Bags 55 Hell's Angels
We need less government, not more. Just 50 firearms for 55 people? This was a ridiculous waste of our money. Throw the bums out!!!

elchulopadre 12-04-2003 07:09 PM

Re: a whole quarter pound of
I don't know the economics of meths, but I know the numbers are just as shocking for cocaine.

Let's start with the coca leaf. The farmers who plant them get paid roughly 10 dollars for the amount of leaves necessary to produce 1 kg of cocaine (about 50 kg worth of leaves, give or take).

After being collected, the leaves are processed to extract the 'good stuff' and concentrate it into a thick paste. At this point, it's worth $200.

Dried, purified, and cut, it's worth about $1000. At this point, it's still about 200 yards from the fields in which it was grown.

Smugglers get around $5000 per kilo they bring into the US. This same kilo, on the streets of New York, goes for around $20k.

However, very few people buy a whole kilo of blow at a time - so by the time that kilo gets distributed to the end users, it's been sold for over $180,000.

So in terms of a market, there is very little economic incentive for there to be an end to the drug trade (be it via legalization or non-half-assed attempts to stop it). The other side of the story is that organizations such as Colombia's FARC are capable of producing tons of the stuff and thus fund their violent guerilla against the state.

I read somewhere that, if the FARC's drug money instantly dried up, they'd shrink to about 5% of their current size - of course, they'd seek financing elsewhere...

My family is from Colombia, and the topic of violence and drug trade comes up fairly often...

Mashuri 12-04-2003 10:44 PM

Re: let's try a different maybe
And your point is??? How is a person's training (or lack thereof) the manufacturer's responsibility? They are operating within the guidelines set by our government (which are too restrictive as it is) so why should they be responsible for their misuse? You do realize that over 99% of the firearms in the U.S. end up never killing anyone, right? Why do you want to punish the 99+% safe gunowners for the misdoings of the <1%? You got a personal vendetta or something?

seruzawa 12-05-2003 06:17 AM

Re: let's try a different maybe
First off, Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun.

I actually have used guns to shoot at people. I was required to do so by the government, apparently an organization that you foolishly think exists to protect the public. The actual motivation behind gun controllers is a fear that an honest person might use it to defend himself from a totalitarian collectivist... in other words a gun controller.

In any case Pandora's Box is already open. Societies that have strict gun control like England and Japan are now increasingly under assault by armed criminals. Private gun ownershil is illegal in most Middle Eastern states. A lot of good those laws do.

English police carry guns now. In England if you defend your wife from someone who is in the process of raping her you are likely to go to jail for longer than the rapist. How nice.

Is that what we want here? Do you realize just how powerful a police state we would have to have to even think about confiscating the guns of current owners?

seruzawa 12-05-2003 06:21 AM

Re: ATF Bags 55 Hell's Angels
The Angels neglected to keep their payments up to the FBI and DEA regional chiefs. That's all.

That being said it's good the clowns are out of circulation for a few weeks. I mean the Angels.

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