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Old 07-17-2003, 12:22 AM   #61
wakked1
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Default Re: Biker jailed for 157mph ride in U.K.

Ok, I had to be a total geek and do the math. Forgive me:



Assuming a 750lb bike going 150mph hits a 4500lb SUV going the other way at 70mph.



Momentum of bike: 112500

Momentum of SUV: -315000

Momentum of bike+SUV after big bang: -202500

Velocity of bike (& SUV) immediately after collision: -38.57 mph (probably a bit slower in real life)

Difference in velocity of bike: -188.57 mph

Difference in velocity of SUV: -31.42 mph



Relative amount of energy absorbed by occupant of bike (delta V, squared): 35559

Relative amount of energy absorbed by occupant of SUV (delta V, squared): 987



Thus, the rider of the bike had to absorb 36 times more energy from the impact than the driver of the SUV.



Enjoy!
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Old 07-17-2003, 04:42 AM   #62
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Default Re: Biker jailed for 157mph ride in U.K.

Pay no attention to sarnali. He recently bought a new Triumph. The fumes from all the burning zener diodes and the bill for all the oil he has to pour into it have loosened his boilerplates.
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Old 07-17-2003, 04:58 AM   #63
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Default Re: Biker jailed for 157mph ride in U.K.

The problem with using formulas is that they don't take into account practical considerations.



The energy from the impact of a bike against a car would not be distributed evenly throughout the car. The front wheel of the bike would strike the car at a relatively small point thus applying the energy developed by the differential velocity at that point. The fork would deform and the rest of the bike's mass would strike the rest of the car in some random fashion.



Someone (we'll call him AF) is going hell bent for leather down a city street at 100 mph. Some woman in a Honda Civic with the back seat full of kids makes a leftturn in front of him. AF then strikes the Civic on the right rear quarter where the children are sitting.



It wouldn't be pretty. The force could also force a small car into another lane of on comming traffic.



It gets worse when intead of AF on an F1 you have Buzglyd all tanked up testing out his new 95CI engine along LaJolla beach. Imagine the impact of that mass!!

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Old 07-17-2003, 07:06 AM   #64
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Default They do!

I see you have never riden through Tennesee. I was en route from Nashville, TN to Charlotte, NC last summer around the fourth of July at 90 mph or so in the left lane and when I checked my mirrors I saw a whole train of cars, bumper to bumper, bearing down on me at 110+ mph!! Needles to say I changed lanes and let them on by. I think NASCAR conditions the fans to think that it's OK for them to draft each other at 110+ mph in their large american made sedans and pickup trucks. It's not a good thing for a motorcyclist when you find them 10 feet off your rear wheel! Too bad there are no "Motorcycle Only" roads or lanes.



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Old 07-17-2003, 07:43 AM   #65
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Default Wild speculations

So, we've had threads on the Autobahn, on how speed limits are thoroughly useless, physics, overly centralized regulation here in the states, and a lack of respect for the rule of law.



Ok. So, to address Abe_Frohman's claim from the first story that the speed limit for a young man on a ZX12 and an Old Geezer (tm) in a generic Oldsmobuick shouldn't be the same, (presumeably) because the young man has better reaction times, vision, etc than the Old Guy.



In general, I agree. But I don't really think it should be based on age. I think it would be better to base "driver class" (a concept I'll get into more in a minute) on actual tested ability and skill. I mean, Mario Andretti is 63, but he'll probably still be capable of piloting a vehicle at high speeds in another 20 years. And there are almost certainly 20 year olds who are just too slow in the head to handle driving at such high rates of speed.



The contention that speed limits are totally useless is two pronged. First is the half that observes the 75 mph mandated limit no matter how flat, straight, and even the road is. On the other hand, there are spots in CA (I'm thinking of 46 and 58, here) where when the speed limit says 15, they really mean it. Once again, someone with a higher demonstrated skill level, and adequate equipment, (I can take those roads a lot faster even on my Warrior than I could in the pickup truck) should be allowed to go faster. But someone (such as our theoretical 85 year old) should be restricted to speeds that his aging brain can process information at.



Disrespect for the rule of law: It's not so much a disrepect for the general rule of law, as a disrespect for unreasonable rule of law. I-5 in CA, I-80 in NV, I-40 in AZ, for example, being limited to 75 mph for no good reason. (Hell, 70 in CA. I am somehow unconvinced that my car becomes 5 mph less safe to drive when I hit the CA border on I-40...) These are all roads which could safely handle much higher speeds. I consider a central imposition of a maximum speed limit irrespective of circumstance to be unreasonable rule of law. I mean, we'd all be *really* safe if the speed limit was 25 mph...



The Autobahn: the Autobahn has the advantage of having been designed specifically with the purpose of high speed driving in mind. It is well suited to high speed traffic, and moreover, everyone who drives on it is aware of the fact that some portion of the other traffic is likely to be going faster than they are, so (I expect) they pay a bit more attention. If you're doing 150 on a road where most people expect to see 75 mph (or so) traffic, you're a vastly unexpected anomaly that people aren't prepared to deal with.



I suggest a system of graduated licenses based on demonstrated ability. I don't think (and I'm sure if y'all disagree, you'll let me know...) that it is unreasonable to require race car (or bike) training for people who are looking to recieve an unrestricted license for the public roads. In fact, it might be easier to just accept AMA or FIA racing certification as the licensing process for your 150MPH rated super license. Conversely, if your demonstrated reflex timing and event processing abilities are really low, you might be limited to driving on city streets, with no freeway access at all. (Sorry Bobby, you just don't think fast enough to be in charge of 2 tons of steel at 75 mph...)



I'd also really like to see a highway (ideally a set of them) connecting LA and NYC which is forbidden to truck traffic, at least 3 lanes in each direction, with lane based speed limits. Say, 100 for the right lane, 125 for the middle lane, and unrestricted for the left lane.



Of course, the Libertarian in me quails at the thought of creating another centralized authority to oversee the whole thing. Anyway, it's just a thought.



-Kawazuki
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Old 07-17-2003, 07:55 AM   #66
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Default Re: Biker jailed for 157mph ride in U.K.

Seruzawa, how prophetic was our little discourse on otcogenarian drivers yesterday? Did you see the news from Santa Monica this morning? VWW
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Old 07-17-2003, 08:19 AM   #67
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Default Re: Bikers responsible for anti-moto laws.

Look at the increasing Chinese/Taiwan motorcycle manufacturers and you will see a plethora of 250-400cc bikes. They are still available in the numbers that they used to be, just not from the Japanese. Add to your list of Japanese small bikes the Kawasaki Ninja 250 the Suzuki GZ250 and you've got a pretty wide variety of bikes to choose from.



There are still a couple entry-level DP bikes available for short people- the TW200 comes to mind, and I am sure there are others.



I guess entry-level depends on how you define it. Unfortunately a 300-400cc motorcycle is nearly useless for any use other than in-town. Highway riding on one of these, especially in areas that have a 65mph speed limit, is sketchy at best. The rider who buys one of these smaller bikes ends up selling it in two months because he immediately outgrows it. Today's 600-750cc cruisers only make about 40-50 hp, which is about the same as a GS500 or Seca 2, which most people classify as entry-level, and offer much lower seat heights than either, considerably more comfort, and also highway riding capability.

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Old 07-17-2003, 09:38 AM   #68
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Default Re: Bikers responsible for anti-moto laws.

... yawn .
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Old 07-17-2003, 10:45 AM   #69
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Default Re: Biker jailed for 157mph ride in U.K.

Good point about the application of momentum vs. KE: to dumb this down to my level, it is .5mv^2 that determines how much total sh!te must be eaten, but mv determines who has to eat how much.



And thanks for doing the math - especially in light of the above, the numbers really underscore for me exactly how far off base these guys are who ***** about who's at fault when the ice-cream eating, brainless octogenarian on a cell phone cut them off in traffic. *Of course* it's his fault, but how much does that matter when it's your funeral and his dented quarterpanel?



Count me in with the "two words" guy above: track day.
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Old 07-17-2003, 11:36 AM   #70
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Default Re: Biker jailed for 157mph ride in U.K.

Of course, these two dweebs are nowhere near as dangerous as the old man that killed nine people in Santa Monica yesterday. It's funny how people demand horsepower limits and helmet laws but believe that stricter licensing for old people infringes on their rights...
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