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SRMark 06-19-2003 05:04 AM

Re: Told you so.
Check the death toll at the two most recent biker get togethers at Myrtyle Beach. One was a cruiser crowd, the other a sport bike crowd. Same body count. Bad behavior doesn't care what bike you ride. It will kill you both. Ride, have fun, but live to ride again.

seruzawa 06-19-2003 05:19 AM

Re: Told you so.
Exactly. We live in a PR world. Look at how much trouble Life magazine's lies about the old Hollister incident casued grief for bikers for decades.

NoKneeDown 06-19-2003 05:27 AM

Re: MC Chase ends in Riot
I don't condone running from the police at all but I can certainly understand why this guy did. He was found to have a "small amount of marijuana" on his person which, in this country, can lead to a "large amount of prison." Maybe if we didn't label certain people as evil criminals, they wouldn't feel the need to avoid the good guys so much.

rsheidler 06-19-2003 06:44 AM

Re: MC Chase ends in Riot
I believe that my friend Kawasaki had advanced the hypothesis that perhaps the perp ran because of the draconian penalties associated with pot possession.

He did not (nor did I) say that "justified" his running from the police, but did suggest that such a response could be triggered by such potential penalties.

If you do something that a very large percentage also does, but for which occassionally someone gets 20+ years of forced anal sex for getting caught, it is not too big a stretch to think that you might panic and chose to run for it when you realize you are about to get busted.

Your response seemed to say that as long as pot is illegal, the poor schmuck singled out for prosecution should just practice relaxing his anal sphinctor. Maybe I misconstrued what you are suggesting, but I have a big problem with the concept that free men and women should obey laws with which they do not agree -- whether these laws are trivial or serious.

I regularly break laws -- in a couple of weeks, I move back to Utah, where (unless the laws have recently been changed) a significant portion of my favorite sexual practices are defined as "sodomy" -- I believe that the jacking off to which you allude falls into that definition as well. Shortly after I get there, I expect to break a whole group of those laws, along with some of the state's liquor laws as well (by moving my wine collection, purchased in California and Oregon, across the state line, I will have done that on I-80 in Wendover).

BTW, while I oppose our pot laws, I have not toked in years, and legalization of pot is not at the top of my political agenda.



rsheidler 06-19-2003 06:56 AM

Re: Speeding go-cart before the horse
I agree that the situation is different, depending on whether you are talking about a rural or urban area -- the risk to bystanders as well as the availability of copters, roadblocks etc are different. That should be a major part of the guidelines in determining when or when not to enter a high speed chase.

Pretty sure Benton Harbor would qualify as urban, and I am sure the police have copters.

BTW, I have successfully run from the police in unpopulated areas -- it they don't have your plates, and you have a variety of alternative routes so that they don't know where to set up a road block. One time, however, I nearly got shot -- remember, the policeman who is chasing is also running on adrenelin (sp?) and may well over-react as well. I don't advise it!

rsheidler 06-19-2003 06:59 AM

Re: MC Chase ends in Riot
Are we talking about the USA or are we in pre-invasion Iraq?

sarnali 06-19-2003 07:01 AM

Re: MC Chase ends in Riot
Well that was a scathing rebuke. Typically people that run from the cops, jump curbs and cut through yards at 70mph don't carry insurance, but who knows? From what other posters who appear to have more detailed information have said, the guy looks to have been a complete ******* and a danger to himself and everyone around him.

rsheidler 06-19-2003 07:13 AM

Rioting vs Civil Disobediance
So, a drunken mob forceably breaking into privately-owned ships, vandalizing and destroying privately-owned inventory is not a riot?

Civil disobediance in this situation would have been setting up picket lines around the docks, or maybe boycotting the ef'n tea.

If the subsequent American Revolution had not really materialized, the Boston Tea Party would have gone down in history (it it was remembered at all) as just another example of mob hooliganism, little different from this case.

Clearly the main difference between a riot and a revolution is the later outcome of the movement.

rsheidler 06-19-2003 07:17 AM

Re: MC Chase ends in Riot
I don't see how this reflects on motorcyclists one way or another. None of the news coverage I have seen/heard suggests that this is in any way a mototcyclist vs the rest issue but rather a police vs the community issue. People are not rioting to defend motorcyclists, they are rioting because they are angry about how they feel they are treated by the police.

sarnali 06-19-2003 07:22 AM

Re: Told you so.
I wonder how we could plot that? I guess you'd have to measure the kinetic energy of a 250lb drunk middle aged fat guy on an 850lb cruiser @ 40mph into your baseline Civic,- VS.- the kinetic energy of a stoned 175lb skinny kid on a 350lb sportbike @ 80mph into our trusty Civic. Then factor in the aerodynamic's of a fullface helmet (with graphics) a T shirt, shorts and Nike's on a streamlined body type -VS- the aerodynamics of a beanie helmet (with ***** helmets sticker) a T shirt, new leather chaps, new HD engineer (tm) boots and fringed arm and finger chaps on a "rotund" body type. Gauge civil and media reactons then graph the results. That way we'd know for sure which scenario gaves us the worst puplic perceptions.

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