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Old 06-18-2003, 05:04 PM   #71
BMW4VWW
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Default Re: Speeding go-cart before the horse

Actually it was based on my step-fathers extensive law enforcment experience as he was once in charge of the L A P D helicopter unit. VWW
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Old 06-18-2003, 05:09 PM   #72
obandoj
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Default Re: Told you so.

Right, and all of the cruiser types that hang out at the bars getting &*$# faced before riding home would have nothing to do with that, right?

You are fooling yourself.

If you don't believe it, you have not been to Daytona, Sturgis, Virginia Beach, etc. Or any of the local watering holes in Anywhere USA.

When was the last time you saw 50 sport bikes sitting outside a bar for hours on end?
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Old 06-18-2003, 05:28 PM   #73
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Default Re: MC Chase ends in Riot

Wow electraglider, you are right there.
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Old 06-18-2003, 06:06 PM   #74
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Default Re: Told you so.

Whatever. I'm just gloating that my prediction, that major problems for bikers are more likely to come from 100mph+ squids than cruiser types, has obviously come true. This story is reality. Your idea is conjecture. See? Reality. Conjecture. Reality. Conjecture. See the difference?



When a biker gets drunk and wipes himself on his nice new 95CI Glide (with injection mapping) Joe Public just laughs. When some squid travelling at 100+ takes out some mom and her kids in the Civic, the public will demand action.



You don't have to like it. It just is.



Or as Buckaroo Banzai said, "Wherever you go, there you are".
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Old 06-18-2003, 08:33 PM   #75
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Default Re: MC Chase ends in Riot

Some of these responses make me sick. If the police stop chasing suspects, then why have them out on the road? Hell, let's just have a free-for-all and everybody do whatever they want. Maybe we can get more innocent people killed by lawbreakers knowing they won't be chased by police if they drive like a maniac long enough?
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Old 06-19-2003, 02:07 AM   #76
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Default Re: Told you so.

What if it's a drunk cruiser who cashes the soccer mom in the Civic? I don't know what the overall statistics are, but from my experience working in a trauma center, that seems to be a much more common occurance than a sport bike hitting a car (not that plenty of sport bikers don't end up in the ER). But most of these crusier crashes seem to occur at lower speeds, often in intersections with inattentive left-turning motorists at least partially at fault. Facts like those don't grab the headlines like a 100+ mph chase. So I guess you're right after all -- it's the sport bike crash at spectacular speed, or maybe just the speed itself, that creates the greater image problem.
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Old 06-19-2003, 03:16 AM   #77
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Default Re: MC Chase ends in Riot

The idea of laws is that WE write them and either choose to obey them or suffer the consequences. Should we enact a law and later determine it to be unjust or unwise we have the ability to revise or repeal that law. There is a process to all of this. Should an individual choose to ignore the law, he will have committed an illegal act. If a group of individuals choose to ignore the law we have anarchy, riot and other dysfunctional activity. Should you have a problem with a law I suggest that you contact you elected official. If you don't agree with your elected official, I suggest you mount a campaign to have the offending representative removed. If you disagree with the laws of the nation as a whole I suggest you find another place to live.



Sure, there are laws that I feel are poorly written or poorly conceived. But I obey them for the most part and I accept the consequences for not obeying those I don't. I also write to my representatives on a regular basis and I vote every time I am given the opportunity. I suggest you may want to do the same. And yes, there may come a time "When, in the course of human events,..." but we are far from needing to make such a declaration in this country.
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Old 06-19-2003, 04:02 AM   #78
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Default Re: let me get this straight ...

I wouldn't say he "deserved" it but he did it to himself. The cops didn't kill this kid, he killed himself. It's a shame he had to die over something this stupid.
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Old 06-19-2003, 04:11 AM   #79
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Default Re: MC Chase ends in Riot

Equating the BTP with a riot in which completely innocent people were battered is ridiculous and the world's largest stretch. There is 'civil disobediance' (BTP) and then there's a riot... these two events you've compared are not the same.

Before you start, I'm sure someone was injured at the BTP as well, but odds are the bulk of the activity was not nearly as nefarious as this riot appears to have been (not that I was there, just from what I've read I'm figuring it was violent).



No doubt the folks rioting were ticked off, but it is no defense to claim "well, dang, they were upset...what were they supposed to do?!" If you keep giving rioters a pass on their behavior, what do you expect to happen going forward?...

a riot over the fact that McDonald's food is fatty can't be too far off. It's like frivolous lawsuits... they're reaching epidemic levels b/c 'the system' encourages them.



If you say riots bring "sweeping changes, now!", then you're delusional. The BTP happened under far different circumstances, different laws, different times, and most importantly, we had no other means; fair (-ish.. they're not perfect) courts and democracy didn't exist.



If you want to compare to the BTP, then the rioters should've just attacked the police... not that I'd advocate that.



Rioting is still hardly understood... mob-mentality takes over, yadda yadda... I fully appreciate all of that. I would prosecute every single rioter that burned down his neighbor's house or battered a bystander to the fullest extent of the law. My personal opinion is that rioters do what they do because society reinforces acceptance based on past 'productive' riots (though equally destructive).. like civil rights riots ( a cause arguably worth rioting over, IMHO, though I'd advocate peaceful means as much as possible, and a lot more is possible than most rioters would recognize).



If they are after a change in police policy, an organized march on the police offices would've gotten far more positive attention (from the media, for example) and far more backing by the community at large. Instead, they attacked the media... and the community... brilliant. No sympathy for them.



-James



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Old 06-19-2003, 04:28 AM   #80
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Default Re: MC Chase ends in Riot

Bingo.. I think that's what they're advocating, ridiculous as it is.



"Let's treat the symptoms, not the cause!" bah!



( in case some folks don't see it: symptom == the chase/crash, cause == the criminal doing the running )



-James
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