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sarnali 01-25-2003 03:42 PM

Re: Point taken
maybe drunk canyon carvers on gsxr 1000's with no helmet?

micro 01-25-2003 04:07 PM

Re: Crash! Splat!
I have to agree with you,because here in orlando harley riders are all over the place. They wear very little protective gear, ride there bikes more often than sportbike riders and have you ever tried to stop a harly real fast or a quick emergency lane change!Dont get me wrong because i like harleys, but when it comes to safety I would rather be riding a sport bike with protective gear.

arizonagerg 01-25-2003 04:25 PM

Re: Crash! Splat!
I disagree. This purely my subjective opinion, but, I think my H-D does pretty good at a quick emergency lane change, and though the brakes lack feel, and take some effort, I think they do a pretty good job of slowing the mass down. I also ride my Harly alot more conservatively than my Kaw Concours. I feel more at risk on the Connie. I dont think I ride real aggressive on it, but definitely more than the H-D. But you do have a point on lack of protective gear on any kind of ride, and frequency of use.

Weezel 01-25-2003 05:06 PM

Re: Crash! Splat!
This data is disturbingly misleading. As someone else pointed out, the curve is preselected by using 1997 as the baseline. In 1990, about 3200 fatalities on bikes were reported by NHTSA, about the same as this year. There are more bikes now, but I haven't easily found registrations for 2002. In 1980, there were over 5000 fatalities on bikes. Using vehicle miles is ludicrous, since these are not even estimates -more like guesstimates, but even so, there are a lot more vehicle miles now anyway with more bikes. The real question is not why we have the current fatality rate which demonstrates dramatic improvement over the last 20 years and relative stability over the last 10; rather, why was there a downward blip in the late 1990's when the fatality improvement was so much better than the general 20 year trend. In other words, there is no epidemic of death on motorcycles at this time - we're right where one would statistically expect us to be. We should just try to figure out what was going on right in 1996-99, as well as why we improved so much from 1980.

MrDeadeye 01-25-2003 05:10 PM

Re: Crash! Splat!
Everytime I see a report like this, I wonder why we are always left to guess what the cause of the trend is. Do police accident reports contain relevent info like type of bike (make/model), age of rider, whether or not the rider was wearing protective equipment, involvement of alchohol, and suspected reason for the accident (hit by truck, rode off cliff) ?? This all seems like basic stuff that would be recorded after a fatality occurs. Some things, like rider skill level, would be harder to determine. But, we shouldn't have to guess about everything. If the experts investigated a little harder, maybe they wouldn't be stumped.

Weezel 01-25-2003 05:22 PM

Re: Crash! Splat!
Anyone remember the front page headline plastered in every newspaper in 1997: MOTORCYCLES BECOMING DRAMATICALLY SAFER SINCE 1980 WITH FATALITIES CUT BY OVER 50%.

I can't seem to find the clippings.

jmeyn 01-25-2003 06:24 PM

Re: Take a look at the NHTSA study
It echos the Hurt Report perfectly, doesn't it?

The over-40 alchohol figures are scary. Alcohol and helmets alone are enough to reverse the trend. Given time, natural selection will prevail.

The studies and initiatives they propose look great to me. No hint of abolitionist tendencies or black helicopters; just what can we do to help.

Thanks for this post. Worth the MO subscription all by itself.

jmeyn 01-25-2003 06:26 PM

Re: Crash! Splat!
They aren't really. See pbx post above.

arizonagerg 01-25-2003 06:29 PM

Re: Crash! Splat!
Easy for the uninformed to blame it on the, oh, why not the investigators. All that basic stuff as you call it IS recorded on traffic accident reports. But all that is the "what happened" of specific collisions. You can make a good database with that info, and identify new trends, but trying to figure out why those trends are happening can be a bit more difficult.

arehling 01-25-2003 06:37 PM

Re: Crash! Splat!
If "Other nations are seeing a similar rise in motorcycle deaths" it would seem to point to

the bikes themselves. Every country has different safety requlations, road conditions and rider populations but that doesn't seem to be a factor if the statistics are similar everywhere.

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