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Old 10-04-2002, 11:29 AM   #81
namflashback
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Default Re: Motorcycle accidents, fatalities on the rise in WA: Blame on SUVs, HOGs, Older R

Do cage drivers get off easy when they violate right of way of another cage and say "I didn't see the car?" I mean, aren't pretty much all collisions because somebody misjudged (or just plain missed) the position of another vehicle.



Why is "not seeing something" allowed as a defense for any accident? Makes me scared to just drive my car. Yow!



I used to have the view that any rider out there who naturally selected themselves out of the riding population were perfectly entitled to do so. Dinosaur alley - ride drunk, be a squid, sans helmet, etc. Trouble is, our loved ones hear the messages about these losers and automatically think we will have the same fate.



We are preaching to the converted on this forum. How do we teach the cagers better? How do we teach our own growing population better? I don't know what the answer is.
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Old 10-04-2002, 11:34 AM   #82
GSXR866
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Default Re: Motorcycle Crashes, Deaths on the Rise in WA: Blame on SUVs, HOGs, Older Riders

Thats really all this is about, deciding what risks are managable. You've been riding longer then i've been alive, I'm 22 and I have seen, experienced, and heard enough to know I don't want to be on the street with other people in control of my fate. I think that has a lot to do with where your from. No doubt areas of this country are safer then others for motorcyclists. Here in Rhode Island, I can count 5 people who were killed not even in the last month. 4 were unavoidable on the part of the rider and the circumstances ended up to be the most grusome and stomach turning imaginable. Thats not my cup of tea. I can no longer comfort myself saying, "it won't happen to me because i wear a top of the line helmet, leathers, and ride skillfully and inteligently"
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Old 10-04-2002, 12:06 PM   #83
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Default Re: Work them stats!!

I'm pretty sure you can't sell a street legal 2 cycle engine over 50cc anymore so thats why you don't see any RS250's or NSR250s. I have no idea why anyone would want a machine like that with license plates on it anyway, its bad enough so many other sportbikes get paraded around town wearing grooves in the center of their once hi-performance supersport tires. GSX-R's, CBR's and the like, should come out of the crate ready to race with aftermarket street kits available for those looking to impress their friends around town.
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Old 10-04-2002, 12:17 PM   #84
rsheidler
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Default Re: Motorcycle Crashes, Deaths on the Rise in WA: Blame on SUVs, HOGs, Older Riders

I bet you have ridden in Europe!



I am not gonna get into a discussion of the merits of Europe vs the US (had plenty of that last week!). However, drivers/riders licencing is one area where I strongly feel we could learn a thing or two.



In most of Western Europe:

(for Germany, substitute 27hp for 125 cc -- otherwise pretty similar)



>You do not get a licence to ride even a 125 until you take a pretty intensive class (not at all like MSF -- more like Keith Code, or Pridmore's CLASS), then ya gotta do at least a year on the 125 before you move up to a "real" motorcycle.



>Licence rules set up such that most people do the 125's before moving to cars as well. Makes em better drivers, and more aware of bikes.



> Licenses for cars don't come in cereal or Cracker Jacks boxes -- ya gotta earn em. Not just how to parallel park, but how to drive at speed, avoid emergency situations, handle skids, panic stops, etc. Most people take a year or so of classes to pass. By then, they really know what they are doing.



> Vehicle inspections assure that cars (or bikes) with bald tires, loose steering, no brakes etc are not on the road.



> Having assured (within reason) that both the equipment and operators are competent to be on the road, they don't have to have bullsh#t speed enforcment to protect their citizens from their own incompetence.



> You can walk into a restaurant or store in full leathers and nobody looks at you like an alien.



> Lots more motorcycle race fans, so all the races are shown live, in your choice of language.



> A great selection of smaller, yet sophisticated bikes to choose from.



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Old 10-04-2002, 12:29 PM   #85
Kevenmac
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Default Re: Grand Am

Funny, my grand am was sitting at a redlight and got rear-ended with enough force to knock it 25 feet thru the intersection (by a jeep cherokee)....the rear end crumpled exactly as designed and sent the force up thru the roof. Even though the rear of the car was TOTALLY gone, my 8 year old son in the back seat had nary a bruise. I'd buy that car again in a heartbeat.



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Old 10-04-2002, 12:34 PM   #86
rsheidler
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Default Re: Work them stats!!

Actually, I don't believe that 2-strokes are specifically banned, just that the EPA rules would flunk them (those using current technology anyway) unless they were fitted with catalytic converters. Switzerland, which has tougher standards than the US (Harley's need cats to pass there), does have a lot of 125 and 250 sportbikes , equipped with catalytic converters in place of the usual expansion chambers. Don't know about the 250s, but the 125s are pretty far down on power compared to those sold in Italy and France -- but part of that is due to the regulations for the 125 class license -- not sure how much is due to the converters.



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Old 10-04-2002, 12:37 PM   #87
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Default Re: Motorcycle accidents, fatalities on the rise in WA: Blame on SUVs, HOGs, Older R

>We are preaching to the converted on this forum.How do we teach the cagers better? How do we teach our own growing population better?<



Although I'm no expert in how the human mind works, I do have a few decades of field study, living among them as I do, to form some opinions. By in large, people lack the ability to learn from the mistakes of others. As long as this is true and I don't think it can be disputed, education is going to have a limited impact. Like a child who feels compelled to touch the hot stove, although they are taught to do otherwise, people of all ages have decisions to make on many "hot stove" issues that while they've heard many horror stories about, it doesn't discourage their actions. Solve the riddle of why people can't learn from the mistakes of others and we'll be well our way to safer streets.



Since we are on the topic of safety, here's an address to the Hurt Study conclusions, that are interesting to read over. You gotta love it, that a man named Hurt does a study on motorcycle accidents. http://www.magpie.com/nycmoto/hurt.html
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Old 10-04-2002, 12:57 PM   #88
rsheidler
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Default Re: BABs and Unscrupulous Dealers

>>this poor guy's untimely demise<<



Actually, it is quite possible that his demise is way PAST due -- for darwinism to really do its thing,the stupid and impompetent need to kill themselves BEFORE they have a chance to reproduce and pass defective genes on to another generation.



The only downside to these guys wasting themselves is that it gives police a good excuse to crack down on the rest of us, and insurance companies a good excuse to raise premiums.
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Old 10-04-2002, 01:21 PM   #89
fellswoop13
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Default hey, you could of just said you were too scared.

c'mon, you knew you were being offensive...



quit pullin' the "geez I didn't mean to offend" biz.



the parts about "stop whining" and "quit crying" , coupled with your unorthodox views are what got everyone in a tizzy.



If you just said "I've evaluated the risks, and riding on the street is too scary for me so instead I drive the most humongous SUV available and only ride on theÂ*track in controlled conditions" I'm sure we all would have understood your decision not to ride on the street, if not your decision to drive a big nasty SUV.
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Old 10-04-2002, 01:35 PM   #90
gforces
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Default Re: Motorcycle Crashes, Deaths on the Rise in WA: Blame on SUVs, HOGs, Older Riders

now that sounds more like a constructive post.
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