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Old 10-04-2002, 11:05 AM   #71
gforces
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Default Re: Work them stats!!

Aren't most/all the Japanese manfacturers' design studios in So Cal?
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Old 10-04-2002, 11:07 AM   #72
fellswoop13
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Default Yeah! That's It....oh wait SHUT THE HE11 UP!

Throwing in the towel is not the answer.



You rolling over a cliff in your SUV as you smugly tow your bike to a track might be.



Or, by your "Law of the Jungle" standards, perhaps some speed-addled trucker in a Peterbuilt will take you and your Stupid Useless Vehicle out....we'll tell your relatives and friends (if you have any) not to "cry" or "whine" because it's the law of the jungle and gosh darn it, that Semi was bigger than you.



Your line of reasoning might work well in any number of lawless african, or south american countries.



The rest of us are going to try and do everything we can to be safe, wear proper hi viz gear, ride well, and live our lives until the game is over.





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Old 10-04-2002, 11:19 AM   #73
GSXR866
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Default Re: Motorcycle Crashes, Deaths on the Rise in WA: Blame on SUVs, HOGs, Older Riders

I'm very sorry my contribution isn't in line with YOUR point of view but it is valid and there is an entire sport of OFF HIGHWAY motorcycling that only I (on this entire thread) was original enough to recommend. I rode on the street, I ride in the dirt and I road race. I weighed the dangers and the fun factor of all three and crossed one of the three sports immediately off my list......what have you done?
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Old 10-04-2002, 11:36 AM   #74
GSXR866
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Default Re: Yeah! That's It....oh wait SHUT THE HE11 UP!

Unfortunately you are right. I must use the roadways to get to the racetrack. I do so in a 6300lb GMC Sierra which is anything but stupid and useless since it delivers me and my motorcycle to a place we can accomplish something besides the acomplishment of merely not getting killed. And you are right, some trucker might take me out. But narrowing it down to a licensed occupational professional driver isn't all that bad. But thats life. Some risks are unavoidable. I'm a roadracer so i ought to understand that. The risk of riding a motorcycle on the street is not one of those since there are PLENTY of other much more fun places to ride such as the woods, MX, or roadracing. Places where you can engage the motorcycle and learn something about it and its capabilities. Don't blame me for not having tried any of those sports and feeling like the only place to go is the street where you are bottom of the food chain bright colored gear and all. I don't care what country your in, none of them gaurantee your safety on its roadways so call it a jungle if you want but I honestly don't see how you can disagree you are riding a vehicle that automatically ends up on the short end of a collision with any other vehicle. Like I said, have fun looking over your shoulder for ANY OTHER vehicle.
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Old 10-04-2002, 11:47 AM   #75
soloyosh
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Default Re: Motorcycle Crashes, Deaths on the Rise in WA: Blame on SUVs, HOGs, Older Riders

Maybe its just me but Ive become a much more aware cage driver since I started riding motorcycles. In light of this, whats wrong with making new drivers get their motorcycle license first. After 1 year(or more) of riding motorcycles/scooters then they can apply for their car license. I see nothing but upsides to this:



1) Less traffic: With all these 16-18 year olds on bikes that would have to help unclog the streets.



2) There will be more 2 wheelers out there forcing existing cage pilots to take notice, or risk wiping out junior on the way to school.



3) This will erase the stigma of motorcyclists as "bad people." Because soon a majority of people on the roads will have motorcycle experience.



4) The OEMS will offer more diverse models because the market will be growing so fast.



5) Motorcycle insurance will come down (or should) because of all the competition.



6) Your bank wont consider a motorcycle a recreational vehicle allowing you to obtain a sane interest rate on your purchase.



7) Even more Americans racing bikes.



Speed channel would get rid of the NASCAR overload to make room for more moto programming.



9) Consumer Reports would finally publish a motorcycle buyer's guide.



9) Nuclear disarmarment, world peace, Sadams death could all follow!



Really though, I think everyone should have to ride for a period of time BEFORE they can drive. The only downside I can see is that it would be even harder to get KTM parts.



Brett Miller

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in one well preserved piece, but to skid across the line broadside, thoroughly used up, worn out, leaking oil, shouting GERONIMO!"
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Old 10-04-2002, 11:53 AM   #76
dwr461
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Default Re: Motorcycle Crashes, Deaths on the Rise in WA: Blame on SUVs, HOGs, Older Riders

Riding on the streets, racetrack, or dirt on a motorcycle is an inherently dangerous activity. Yes you are more likely to die in a wreck than if you are in a cage. If you no longer want to ride on street that's your opinion. But you don't have express your opinion in such an offensive tone. I believe you are doing nothing but flame baiting.

PS Any tractor trailer than hits your SUV will kill you too.



Take care and have fun,

Dave
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Old 10-04-2002, 12:15 PM   #77
GSXR866
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Default Re: Motorcycle Crashes, Deaths on the Rise in WA: Blame on SUVs, HOGs, Older Riders

Sounds to me like anyone who questions the decision to street ride would be offensive to you guys. I don't know what "flame baiting" is but it doesn't sound good. I realize a tractor trailer would kill me, please re-read to understand the thoughtful point i was making. Something tells me that it was actually my opinion and not my "tone" which you find most offensive. I'm beginning to realize that the readers of this magazine spend the majority of their time dodging traffic instead of riding so they are offended by someone who doesn't share those risks and challenges their decision. Sorry to have offended you.
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Old 10-04-2002, 12:18 PM   #78
dwr461
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Default Re: Motorcycle Crashes, Deaths on the Rise in WA: Blame on SUVs, HOGs, Older Riders

Here's my two cents worth. I have no scientific data, only my opinion from what I've seen. I've been a paramedic for nine years. The last five, I've worked in a municipal department. We get about forty thousand 911 calls a year and our response area includes everything from working farms to large heavy industrial centers. As such, we have a variety of roads from winding country to urban chaos. In this settng, the two types of people I pick up most frequently from motorcycle accidents are (drum roll please) middle aged cruiser guys and very young sportbike riders. Most of the Harley riders appear drunk and don't have a helmet. Both of these types of riders usually have one thing in common, very little experience. In fact, when I ask the awake, alert, and oriented sportbike pilots how long they've owned their bikes it's usually about three to four months. When I see dead sportbike pilots speed is most often the most important factor. The cruiser riders, who can answer questions, have a much longer length of ownership but do very few miles anually. They are most often killed by the lack of a good, full face, helmet.



I seems to me that the way to avoid seeing myself or other members of my profession is to wear safety gear and a full faced helmet, don't have any alcohol, and survive long enough to get experience. The first two are easily done, but the last I can't tell anyone how to do. I know big surprise you're read all this before about gear etc, but it's true.



Take care,

Dave
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Old 10-04-2002, 12:18 PM   #79
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Default Re: KPaul transformation and other observations...

Some random thoughts:



I live in WA, home of the 6-9 month waiting list for the MSF, and the issue is funding, not lack of instructors. Thanks to a misguided initiative campaign by those who felt that WA's progressive taxation of cages impaired their god-given right to drive $60K guzzlers for the same annual licensing fee as someone with an '87 Tercel, the $$ available for transportation issues was decimated and MSF course availability was slashed.



The lack of private alternatives is a bit puzzling, but I suspect results from the market for instruction being too small for private operators to compete with the public subsidized MSF. Plus the licensing skills test is basically set up to force you to take the MSF. (Ever try the U-turn in a a box test on a Duc?). When I took the skills test only 3 or 4 of us passed out of the 10 or so applicants that morning.



Slashing MSF funding also seems spectacularly shortsighted. The public $$ spent on mangled, unisured riders would be much better spent on education than hospital bills.



I also agree the AMA's obsession with helmet laws is stupid and misguided. But I think this is totally driven by member demand. That's about the only issue the black leather and beer belly crowd seem to rally 'round.



Finally, I don't think the MSF is the panacea it's touted as. The skills taught are great for navigating parking lots but don't do much for real-world riding. My fiance took the basic course and graduated with a license but had never gotten out of 2d gear or gone faster than 30 mph. And she was far from a safe rider--she was too gripped once speeds got out of her familiarity zone to do what she had been trained to do. I'm not knocking the MSF--I totally support it and it's good for what it is--but what's really needed are track days (or even just some car free place) for beginners to go and practice moving at freeway speeds without being on freeways.
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Old 10-04-2002, 12:23 PM   #80
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Default Re: Motorcycle Crashes, Deaths on the Rise in WA: Blame on SUVs, HOGs, Older Riders

While I do not fully endorse your viewpoint, I certainly understand it and acknowledge that there is some validity to it.



After riding on the road for 25+ years, I have recently completely converted my Ducati to track only -- novice racing and track days. Because my riding was in rural mountain regions with little traffic, my reasons were not so much due to cars on the road as much as that my riding, and that of my riding buddies, was getting far to extreme for the street. Dragging your knee around a blind 100mph corner only to find a large bull standing in the middle of the road is not a good idea! After losing several friends (dead or seriously effed up) within a year or so, I decided that my Duc did not belong on the public roads. I might be old, but I am not sufficiently mature to exercise appropriate restraint when a buddy blows past on his R-6.



I will get back on the road, but with a bike that does not cry out to be ridden at the limit like my Duc. I know that I am taking a risk, but it is a managable one.



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