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seruzawa 09-12-2008 10:38 AM

The thing that has always troubled me most about all this is the invariable behavior of environmentalists to chronically lie. That seems to be the main activity these days, not just environmentalists, but just about every advocacy group you read about engages in wild lies and exaggerations. now, it can't be good to spew a lot of various crap into the biosphere. There is evidence that the ocean's acid content is rising. but there was an interesting article in Popular Science about people who are trying to counter this acididty. They are opposed and shut down by environmentalists. You see, the only possible solution for them is to destroy industrial society. Once you understand that then the crazy lies and behavior of the environmentalist fanatics makes sense.

longride 09-12-2008 10:44 AM

Sensationalism gets money. Follow the money.

sarnali2 09-12-2008 12:28 PM

The thing that cracks me up about all that nonsense is the front page headlines will scream about "the hottest day/month/year in history!!!" while the next story down will be "melting glacier exposes 1000 year old Viking settlement in the arctic"... I mean really, how foolish of them to build a town underneath a glacier.....

Cyclic heating and cooling of the planet has been going on for millions of years, it's just now we have more sophisticated systems to collect and coalate data. Granted it's not a good idea to spew tons of particulates into the air and acidify the oceans and we should do all we can to eliminate that but hair pulling hysteria solves nothing. Neither do abject lies and half truths from the supposed experts in the scientific community, we need a rational and coherant plan world wide to do any good. The trouble is the guy clearing land for farming in the Amazon basin is selfishly more concerned with feeding his family than indulging Algore and his fantasies, the rest of these Earth First ecoterrorists are just attention grabbing a$$holes who enjoy destroying property. You can bet everyone of them lives in a wood framed house, sits in a wooden chair and drives a car everywhere they go. Nothing but hypocrites and demagogues

Kenneth_Moore 09-12-2008 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seruzawa (Post 193529)
it can't be good to spew a lot of various crap into the biosphere.

No, it can't. And if we can create energy sources that don't, why wouldn't we? We all know oil is a dead end, and that we send billions to our sworn enemies for it every day, so why not do something about it?

seruzawa 09-12-2008 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 193540)
No, it can't. And if we can create energy sources that don't, why wouldn't we? We all know oil is a dead end, and that we send billions to our sworn enemies for it every day, so why not do something about it?

Oh, I think it's a great idea. I also believe it's going to happen. But, unlike some people, I don't think that the ends justifies the means. Bottom line: any person or group that uses lies to forward their purpose has hidden evil purposes.

BrowningBAR 09-12-2008 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seruzawa (Post 193547)
Oh, I think it's a great idea. I also believe it's going to happen. But, unlike some people, I don't think that the ends justifies the means. Bottom line: any person or group that uses lies to forward their purpose has hidden evil purposes.

Right. I am ALL for new energy sources. I think we are very close to a new boom in energy development.

Kenneth_Moore 09-12-2008 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seruzawa (Post 193547)
Oh, I think it's a great idea. I also believe it's going to happen. But, unlike some people, I don't think that the ends justifies the means. Bottom line: any person or group that uses lies to forward their purpose has hidden evil purposes.

You say environmentalists lie. Ok, I'll agree that there are a lot of groups whose cause is so important to them that they'll lie or distort the truth to further their ends. But I tend to believe scientists, especially when there are scientists from all over the world who agree on the salient points of global warming; scientists from a multitude of different cultures, nations, economic circumstances, etc. Is a world-wide conspiracy of scientists distorting the truth for their own evil ends more plausable to you than the idea that burning billions of tons of fossil fuels can cause a rise in the Earth's temperature? I can find scientists who will say that that the Earth is around 5000 years old, and that dinosaur bones are a trick played by Satan to test our faith. But the vast majority will disagree, and provide re-producable evidence to support their claims.

longride 09-12-2008 04:41 PM

"But I tend to believe scientists,...."

I guess it all comes down to which ones you believe and which version you believe. Even the most hardened global warming scientists can't agree on a model for the future. That alone makes it the very definition of 'junk science'.

Buzglyd 09-12-2008 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 193549)
You say environmentalists lie. Ok, I'll agree that there are a lot of groups whose cause is so important to them that they'll lie or distort the truth to further their ends. But I tend to believe scientists, especially when there are scientists from all over the world who agree on the salient points of global warming; scientists from a multitude of different cultures, nations, economic circumstances, etc. Is a world-wide conspiracy of scientists distorting the truth for their own evil ends more plausable to you than the idea that burning billions of tons of fossil fuels can cause a rise in the Earth's temperature? I can find scientists who will say that that the Earth is around 5000 years old, and that dinosaur bones are a trick played by Satan to test our faith. But the vast majority will disagree, and provide re-producable evidence to support their claims.

Is someone selling a Magna in here?

seruzawa 09-12-2008 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth_Moore (Post 193549)
You say environmentalists lie. Ok, I'll agree that there are a lot of groups whose cause is so important to them that they'll lie or distort the truth to further their ends. But I tend to believe scientists, especially when there are scientists from all over the world who agree on the salient points of global warming; scientists from a multitude of different cultures, nations, economic circumstances, etc. Is a world-wide conspiracy of scientists distorting the truth for their own evil ends more plausable to you than the idea that burning billions of tons of fossil fuels can cause a rise in the Earth's temperature? I can find scientists who will say that that the Earth is around 5000 years old, and that dinosaur bones are a trick played by Satan to test our faith. But the vast majority will disagree, and provide re-producable evidence to support their claims.

At one time scientists proved that faster than light travel was impossible both physically and theoretically. It is now theoretically possible to exceed the speed of light and certain electronic devices have been measured that transmit particles faster than light. Yet only 10 years ago you would have been labelled a crackpot by the scientific community for saying so... and scientists were. Physics is far more precise than any weather forecasting, yet they constantly revise theories.

Another "fact" was the century long claim that dinosuars were reptiles and ambient temperature blooded. This was based on "religious darwinian dogma" rather than the simple observation that cross-sectioned dinosaur bone marrow revealed the same microorganisms tha exist only in mammls and birds... both warm blooded.

Even longer ago it was "proved" that the Earth revolved around the sun and the ancients even had accurate tables to predict the motion of the planets including the retrograde motion.

So one has to be careful on saying what is settled science. Even the Big Bang theory is largely defunct even though the old guard refuses to admit it. Check out the Electrical Universe Theory for a new and more predictable theory that fits all observed data.

That being said I agree that we should move away from fossil fuels. I just don't agree that we have to give up prosperity to do so. I especially don't care what failed divinity students who had lower grades than the idiot GWBush think.


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