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fumanchu · 11-04-2007, 05:01 AM

"Triumph's ST1050 is truly great.. but just a little too heavy for my taste..."

i don't mean this in anything but a purely curious way: is there a sport tourer that is more your taste - that is, one that satisfies your power/ergo desires and is less than 462 pounds dry (possibly #3 in the list below)? i ask, again, simply out of curiosity, because when i compare the sprint's specs to three other high-end bikes that spring to mind, it throws into stark relief just how well designed the sprint is (and how its numbers are nevertheless conducive to a weight/power/torque trend) - it's only 13 pounds heavier than the ducati ST3s, for example. ergos aside, 462 pounds dry for a package such as the sprint appears to be nothing to sniff at - and if one wants less weight in an off-the-shelf solution, one must almost invariably sacrifice power and torque:

1. the bmw k1200gt: 549lbs/152hp/96lb-ft of torque/3.61lbs-per-hp

2. the triumph sprint st: 462lbs/125hp/77lb-ft of torque/3.69lbs-per-hp

3. the ducati st3s 449lbs/107hp/72lb-ft of torque/4.19lbs-per-hp

4. the bmw f800st: 412lbs/85hp/63lb-ft of torque/4.84lbs-per-hp

as john fortescue said in 1471, "comparisons are odious," and scarcely does this apply more than in the arena of juxtaposing motorcycle specs, but there are still correlations to be derived from these numbers. if you were to graph these numbers, you'd see that - from a sample of high-end sport tourers - decreasing weight tends to mean decreasing performance and higher pounds-to-horsepower ratios. it's all a compromise, and the reason why i ask what would be more "your taste" is because there might possibly be a sport-tourer that breaks this apparent mold which i am not aware of (i.e., one that's not available on this side of the pond).

"... so I retain the right to "complain" !"

...and god bless free speech - motorcycling is a subjective game of chess between your wallet, the pleasure/logic centers in your cerebral cortex, and what the manufacturers have to offer at a given point in time. if nothing tickles your pleasure zones* this year enough to throw down on a new ride, nobody can tell you otherwise. but i would hold that on an offerings basis, there is a wide variety of excellent motorcycles available (even in the hard-to-define sport-touring segment alone), price-wise and performance-wise.

as it seems, your quest might just be a simple matter of either

a) purchasing a sportbike with the power-to-weight ratio that you desire, and bolting on some quality givi cases and an LSL bar for acceptable ergos, or

b) waiting until made-for-the-masses motorcycle technology has progressed far enough to put up the numbers you desire in an (again) off-the-shelf, mass-produced sport-tourer. it will eventually get there.

/rambling off. cheers

*you can always tickle your own pleasure zones, but i think the church has rules against that

sarnali2 · 11-04-2007, 09:17 AM

The FZ1 and new Bandit 1250, even a Z1000 would all seem to fit the bill. All lean more toward the Sport end of the spectrom but can tour with a tank bag and some soft bags.

Just my opinion, worth what you paid for it

jackflash888 · 11-04-2007, 09:18 PM

Fu-
Excellent reply.. well thought out.
Yes, I agree that numbers alone can't represent TASTE. Hmm.. For reference sake, I'm currently on a Bandit 1200 (first generation), lightly stripped and modified. I'm in my late Forties, and have been through a dozen four-cyclinder bikes since 1977 when I bought the very first Suzuki GS750 available, (my first bike in 1972 was a 1968 Yamaha YL-1 !)
I'm not a "racer" anymore.. I gave that up with my blessed GSXR1000, the only bike I truly cried over selling. Sorry, these race-replicas are simply ridiculous for the street, and many of my Shop-buddies quietly agree. Nowadays, you can lose your license with one fat gear-change in the wrong place, on one of those screamers.

I don't like heavy bikes.. in ANY genre. If I need to CORNER suddenly or STOP, I don't want a refrigerator underneath me, and I hate anything with saddlebags. If I can't bungee in on behind me, it stays home.

Yeah, the Sprint is sweet.. and has great reviews.. but about that WEIGHT- I sat on one in a dealership and the first thing that impacted me was the HEFT. It certainly felt a lot heavier than my 1200 Bandit that I'd just rode in on. The only other problem is price; a new Sprint is near to 12 Large, with taxes amd all.

The reason I keep mentioning that CB1100R concept bike is that it's very close to what I always dreamed Suzuki might have done with the Bandit, after the first generation series. Instead, they went fatter and more towards TOURING with that big barn-door fairing and more weight. I was disappointed.

I like the concept of the FZ1 very much, but Yamaha really went screwey with all that amorphous styling. What's going on with that EXHAUST system? My God...Looks like an Electrolux inside-out.

OKAY.. What do I Really Want?
Something like an 2008-style FZ6 Yamaha... but with 1200cc's or so. THAT's what I call proper lines and function.
That oughta get my checkbook out.

11-04-2007, 05:01 AM	#61
fumanchu Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 207	Thor like motorcycle. pretty motorcycle. "Triumph's ST1050 is truly great.. but just a little too heavy for my taste..." i don't mean this in anything but a purely curious way: is there a sport tourer that is more your taste - that is, one that satisfies your power/ergo desires and is less than 462 pounds dry (possibly #3 in the list below)? i ask, again, simply out of curiosity, because when i compare the sprint's specs to three other high-end bikes that spring to mind, it throws into stark relief just how well designed the sprint is (and how its numbers are nevertheless conducive to a weight/power/torque trend) - it's only 13 pounds heavier than the ducati ST3s, for example. ergos aside, 462 pounds dry for a package such as the sprint appears to be nothing to sniff at - and if one wants less weight in an off-the-shelf solution, one must almost invariably sacrifice power and torque: 1. the bmw k1200gt: 549lbs/152hp/96lb-ft of torque/3.61lbs-per-hp 2. the triumph sprint st: 462lbs/125hp/77lb-ft of torque/3.69lbs-per-hp 3. the ducati st3s 449lbs/107hp/72lb-ft of torque/4.19lbs-per-hp 4. the bmw f800st: 412lbs/85hp/63lb-ft of torque/4.84lbs-per-hp as john fortescue said in 1471, "comparisons are odious," and scarcely does this apply more than in the arena of juxtaposing motorcycle specs, but there are still correlations to be derived from these numbers. if you were to graph these numbers, you'd see that - from a sample of high-end sport tourers - decreasing weight tends to mean decreasing performance and higher pounds-to-horsepower ratios. it's all a compromise, and the reason why i ask what would be more "your taste" is because there might possibly be a sport-tourer that breaks this apparent mold which i am not aware of (i.e., one that's not available on this side of the pond). "... so I retain the right to "complain" !" ...and god bless free speech - motorcycling is a subjective game of chess between your wallet, the pleasure/logic centers in your cerebral cortex, and what the manufacturers have to offer at a given point in time. if nothing tickles your pleasure zones* this year enough to throw down on a new ride, nobody can tell you otherwise. but i would hold that on an offerings basis, there is a wide variety of excellent motorcycles available (even in the hard-to-define sport-touring segment alone), price-wise and performance-wise. as it seems, your quest might just be a simple matter of either a) purchasing a sportbike with the power-to-weight ratio that you desire, and bolting on some quality givi cases and an LSL bar for acceptable ergos, or b) waiting until made-for-the-masses motorcycle technology has progressed far enough to put up the numbers you desire in an (again) off-the-shelf, mass-produced sport-tourer. it will eventually get there. /rambling off. cheers you can always tickle your own pleasure zones, but i think the church has rules against that __________________ Ich Tarzan, du Jane / Wir gehen in den Jungle / Da kann uns niemand sehen / Wir machen dann Bum Bum / Das haut die Affen um*

11-04-2007, 09:17 AM	#62
sarnali2 Aging Cafe` Racer Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sittin' down by my window, lookin' at the rain. Posts: 8,132	The FZ1 and new Bandit 1250, even a Z1000 would all seem to fit the bill. All lean more toward the Sport end of the spectrom but can tour with a tank bag and some soft bags. Just my opinion, worth what you paid for it __________________ "Carpe` Throttelum -Loud Suits Save Lives" "All the BMW riders in the room, I want you to leave. Now. Out. "

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11-04-2007, 09:18 PM	#63
jackflash888 Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 8	Fu- Excellent reply.. well thought out. Yes, I agree that numbers alone can't represent TASTE. Hmm.. For reference sake, I'm currently on a Bandit 1200 (first generation), lightly stripped and modified. I'm in my late Forties, and have been through a dozen four-cyclinder bikes since 1977 when I bought the very first Suzuki GS750 available, (my first bike in 1972 was a 1968 Yamaha YL-1 !) I'm not a "racer" anymore.. I gave that up with my blessed GSXR1000, the only bike I truly cried over selling. Sorry, these race-replicas are simply ridiculous for the street, and many of my Shop-buddies quietly agree. Nowadays, you can lose your license with one fat gear-change in the wrong place, on one of those screamers. I don't like heavy bikes.. in ANY genre. If I need to CORNER suddenly or STOP, I don't want a refrigerator underneath me, and I hate anything with saddlebags. If I can't bungee in on behind me, it stays home. Yeah, the Sprint is sweet.. and has great reviews.. but about that WEIGHT- I sat on one in a dealership and the first thing that impacted me was the HEFT. It certainly felt a lot heavier than my 1200 Bandit that I'd just rode in on. The only other problem is price; a new Sprint is near to 12 Large, with taxes amd all. The reason I keep mentioning that CB1100R concept bike is that it's very close to what I always dreamed Suzuki might have done with the Bandit, after the first generation series. Instead, they went fatter and more towards TOURING with that big barn-door fairing and more weight. I was disappointed. I like the concept of the FZ1 very much, but Yamaha really went screwey with all that amorphous styling. What's going on with that EXHAUST system? My God...Looks like an Electrolux inside-out. OKAY.. What do I Really Want? Something like an 2008-style FZ6 Yamaha... but with 1200cc's or so. THAT's what I call proper lines and function. That oughta get my checkbook out.