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Old 04-27-2009, 02:51 PM   #21
acecycleins
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"LR- the reason for the minors is to develop skills..."

Not for the guys that have the skills in the first place. LeBron James hit the NBA at 18. If he needed to 'develop skills' then he probably wouldn't be the best, and that is what he is. He developed all the skill he needed right where he is at. Hopper just isn't good enough. He rose to the level of his own incompetence.
LOL!!! Either that's funny or you're a little cagey today. In racing you don't start at the top level. LeBron is a 1 out of 100,000 player. Even the great Tiger Woods has changed his swing over the years in order to keep the competition behind him. Same with Phelps. Top athletes alter styles all the time.
Hopper has 600 chops, but has never been a world class athlete. Just above average. However, in GP he was truly average. When Bayliss left WSBK to race GP he was average- then he signed that WSBK Ducati contract and became a racing god, again. Hopper may not ever have been a GP racer- if he never raced a GP bike again I don't think we'd notice. Hopefully, he'll find his WSBK legs, but in his case I think he'll be stuck in the middle of the pack making little to no impact on racing history.
Keep an eye on Gillim, Solis and a few other RBRC racers, though. When they get their chance on Moto2 bikes I'll bet that those 125gp races helped their advancement. More than racing 600s in the AMA.
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Old 04-28-2009, 05:38 AM   #22
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"LeBron is a 1 out of 100,000 player."

I think that was my point. You either have 'IT', or you don't. If Hopper had 'IT', he would be a GP champion no matter WHERE he started. Like I tated before, Hopper just rose to the level of his own incompetence. He isn't a great GP racer because he doesn't have 'IT'. Simple as that. All the rest is just excuses. He can 'change styles' all he wants, but the truly gifted end up in the winners circle. He didn't.
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:12 AM   #23
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Moke- too sensitive about post? You pointed out in a post I plodded through months ago that Mat hadn't lost his edge. By default of that defense you have committed to being "Mat's biggest fan" on this site. Why? Well, the sterling defense and the fact that you're the only one that shows any sign of even liking the guy. Sorry- live with it. It's all in fun anyway.

"The point is that nobody needs to stay in one area to improve in another. There is a fallacy that if Hopper stays in AMA he would be better in MotoGP, and I believe that is entirely false. You either have it, or you don't, and Hopper probably just went higher in class than he was ever capable of...."

LR- the reason for the minors is to develop skills. Hopper was a great 250 racer and a fine 600 racer. The step from 600 Supersport to GP was a step he didn't take kindly. I don't even remember him on a Superbike- did he ever race one? I believe he would have faired better with one or two seasons in WSBK 600ss racing or on a factory backed 250 GP squad when he was still in his early 20s. Same with Nicky. When Nicky won the AMA championship is was because of some mis-fortune of others and Miguel's development with the RC51. Mostly, dumb luck earned that Championship. Some of the same can be said about Nicky's GP championship. He raced solid "points" gathering races and bad luck for others helped him. If he'd stayed in the AMA or moved to WSBK for one or two more seasons I think the experience would have helped him become more consistant. It's possible that the results would have been the same as they are now for both of them, but you don't practice to remain the same- you do it to improve your own skills and become even better than you were yesterday.
Ace,I question your ability to gather information and come to the conclusion that I would be M.M biggest fan, even here @ MO? Dont mistake my respect for someones riding, for anything else but that. Respect.


Why is that theory so hard for you to open your mind too LR. If the rider hasnt had but a few years minimum of learning how to for example solve setup problems and other issues with the bike. Wouldnt it be like throwing that rider to the wolves. What if he could barley even understand his mechanic? Their is such a thing as "too early" imo. And I should also state that I dont think J.H could have been a Valentino Rossi or anything but I do think he could have done better if he had stayed a bit longer.

Winning the Supersport Championship in 2001 (On a Supersport Mototrcycle) I stand corrected Ace. Then moving on to a
2stroke 500 hundred with a whole new team is a big step no matter who you are. Hopper is a perfect example of jumping in too quickly.
Ace said it all when he stated "a step he didnt take kindly" referencing the jump to GPs. Maybe he didnt have "that" much experience?
Ace you also stated the reason for minors is to develop skill, with that said its obvious to me that it takes a certain amount of time to mature as a rider, then you make better judgments on and off the track. If Iam incorrect with this theory why is it that Europe admits to molding riders from such a young age? Why is their so many young spanish riders emerging? No one needs to do the math when it comes to counting the Motogp grid or Wsbk grids as to how many Americans are entered. And just for the record LR, the truth is I hate M.M hes the freckin Australain / American Superbike Champion? I'v always wished he go race in his own country. Cant believe you guys dont believe in the molding process, you know the kitty pool, then the big pool??? Oh well.

Ace?- If he'd stayed in the AMA or moved to WSBK for one or two more seasons I think the experience would have helped him become more consistant.

Isnt being consistant the name of the game? Even Wsbk would have been better for Hopkins anything but straight to the top. Theres alot to be said for riders that plateau too quickly.
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Old 04-29-2009, 12:13 PM   #24
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Cool Ouch!

Hopkins debuted with Stiggy at Valencia, scoring decent finishes of 11th and 12th place. But then came Assen, and the Curse of Nordberg struck again. With barely five laps under his belt, Hopkins had a massive high side, landed on both feet, dislocating his hip, cracking his femur, and tearing muscles and ligaments. If there had been a wedding cake in the gravel trap, John Hopkins would have tumbled into it, face first.

At this point, it is undetermined how long Hopkins will be out, but one doubts he'll sit idle for too long. He's raced hurt many times before, and is clearly very keen to prove his mettle in WSBK. It would be great to have another American rider to root for in WSBK, especially at the upcoming Miller Motorsports round in Utah; so fingers crossed, John Hopkins will shake this unusual run of compounded bad luck.

And hopefully, he'll be able keep the frosting off his face for the balance of 2009.
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Old 04-29-2009, 09:29 PM   #25
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Jeez, Moke, did you buy all your term papers, too? That's an almost word-for-word theft of superbikeplanet.com. You been hanging out with KP?

I'm going to sit right on the fence on this one. I agree with LR that the truly spectacular talents probably won't benefit too much from staying too long at lower levels of competition. But for every Dan Marino there are several guys who were more workmanlike in their rise to stardom. Tom Brady might be a decent example. Contrary to what many believe, he wasn't exactly an overnight sensation; he was never a full-time starter at Michigan, was drafted in the sixth round, and probably isn't the most spectacular natural athlete who has played QB. But he's smart and worked his a$$ off to learn the game. Kurt Warner, too. He was in the Arena League, for Christ's sake.

Some people benefit from a little extra seasoning while some would just be held back. But I'm not sure that Hopper has ever had the all important "little extra" that would get him to the very top of the sport.
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:52 AM   #26
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I'm going to sit right on the fence on this one. I agree with LR that the truly spectacular talents probably won't benefit too much from staying too long at lower levels of competition. But for every Dan Marino there are several guys who were more workmanlike in their rise to stardom. Tom Brady might be a decent example. Contrary to what many believe, he wasn't exactly an overnight sensation; he was never a full-time starter at Michigan, was drafted in the sixth round, and probably isn't the most spectacular natural athlete who has played QB. But he's smart and worked his a$$ off to learn the game. Kurt Warner, too. He was in the Arena League, for Christ's sake.

Some people benefit from a little extra seasoning while some would just be held back. But I'm not sure that Hopper has ever had the all important "little extra" that would get him to the very top of the sport.

Excellent points, pdad. Also, the fit of the person with the team must be considered. Some situations are not conducive for a person (i.e. politics, funding, etc.), but then they change to another team and success follows.
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Old 04-30-2009, 06:32 AM   #27
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Jeez, Moke, did you buy all your term papers, too? That's an almost word-for-word theft of superbikeplanet.com. You been hanging out with KP?

I'm going to sit right on the fence on this one. I agree with LR that the truly spectacular talents probably won't benefit too much from staying too long at lower levels of competition. But for every Dan Marino there are several guys who were more workmanlike in their rise to stardom. Tom Brady might be a decent example. Contrary to what many believe, he wasn't exactly an overnight sensation; he was never a full-time starter at Michigan, was drafted in the sixth round, and probably isn't the most spectacular natural athlete who has played QB. But he's smart and worked his a$$ off to learn the game. Kurt Warner, too. He was in the Arena League, for Christ's sake.

Some people benefit from a little extra seasoning while some would just be held back. But I'm not sure that Hopper has ever had the all important "little extra" that would get him to the very top of the sport.
ALMOST? Wow your quick, jezz I forgot to post from SUPERBIKEPLANET?
Besides everyone here knows I cant construct a sentence that well.
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Old 04-30-2009, 06:46 AM   #28
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Excellent points, pdad. Also, the fit of the person with the team must be considered. Some situations are not conducive for a person (i.e. politics, funding, etc.), but then they change to another team and success follows.
Well, there's no question about that. And motorcycle racing is clearly a team sport with the added variable of technology. There are very few talents, like Rossi, who can hope to overcome the disadvantage of a less-than-premier team/bike, and even he can't be expected to work miracles. I have no doubt that given the same Suzuki that Hopper had two years ago, he would have gotten better results, but I doubt he would have come all that close to winning a championship. On the other hand, he might have been able to help to make that bike better.

Remember that the earlier versions of the GSV-R were evil; they apparently had an electronics package that would work intermittently, which resulted in some very hairy moments and spectacular highsides. I have no doubt that the experience could have actually hurt Hopkins' development, but I also think there's something in his personality that's telling. He seems to lose his cool a little too easily.
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Old 04-30-2009, 07:15 AM   #29
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Cool Bad compairisons,...Ball sports/ Motorcycle racing

Again, Iam just stating that he could have been more prepaired once he arrived at Grandprix's. Does anyone know the ride a 500cc two stroke delivers, it aint easy to say the least. Also Iam not saying he would have won but maybe a consistant top five, which would be better (key word) than what he has accomplished.
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