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Old 04-15-2009, 10:44 AM   #11
seruzawa
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The rules Iam refering to are the same ones that would allow for a bigger displacment to be raced against a seemingly unmatched compairision, like the 600's. Besides if you dominate and follow rules
and win all the time is that reason for punishment? I guess in your book it is.

Duhamels been their just as long as Mladin, how come he cant beat him? Imo people just whine because no one can beat the Suzuki team. The DMG was supposed to stop his dominance and have failed, why? cause hes that good, sure he should have moved on but he hasent so what.
Let's not make it personal.

If the rules were created in a vacuum it would be different. But the rules weren't created in a vacuum. When the racing association tailor makes the rules to favor a specific type of motorcycle and then allows factories to race bike that are completely unavailable to privateers I think we can dispense with any ideas about fairness.

Racing has been largely determined merely by displacement but times have changed. Too many people ride sport twins now and if racing is to survive then some sort of accommodation has to be made. Maybe horespower classes will end up being better for racing than simple displacement classes.

But none of this changes the fact that the DMG rules were set up to try to match the bikes somewhat evenly based on horsepower. Then when Slick started to win the Big4 screamed and cried. They read the rules before the series began and didn't complain. Now they are demanding the changes mid-season. Thugs. Thuggish companies. Way too used to their guaranteed championships.

But personal feelings aside something has to be done to bring in the crowds or there will be no racing at all. The last AMA superbike race I went to was a ghost town. Seeing the Big4 p!ss and moan just tickles my funny bone. Buell is cast as the David facing the Goliaths of the East. Good luck Buell.
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Old 04-15-2009, 11:29 AM   #12
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Let's not make it personal.

If the rules were created in a vacuum it would be different. But the rules weren't created in a vacuum. When the racing association tailor makes the rules to favor a specific type of motorcycle and then allows factories to race bike that are completely unavailable to privateers I think we can dispense with any ideas about fairness.

Racing has been largely determined merely by displacement but times have changed. Too many people ride sport twins now and if racing is to survive then some sort of accommodation has to be made. Maybe horespower classes will end up being better for racing than simple displacement classes.

But none of this changes the fact that the DMG rules were set up to try to match the bikes somewhat evenly based on horsepower. Then when Slick started to win the Big4 screamed and cried. They read the rules before the series began and didn't complain. Now they are demanding the changes mid-season. Thugs. Thuggish companies. Way too used to their guaranteed championships.

But personal feelings aside something has to be done to bring in the crowds or there will be no racing at all. The last AMA superbike race I went to was a ghost town. Seeing the Big4 p!ss and moan just tickles my funny bone. Buell is cast as the David facing the Goliaths of the East. Good luck Buell.
PERSONAL? I dont even know you that well bro? Besides I think its well known alot of people ride twins and triples. AMA never ignored that fact ever, they have always raced a twins class for as long as I can remember?

Please give me an example of a bike only factories had available? Compairing classes based on hp is way better an option than displacment that your right about.
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Old 04-15-2009, 12:42 PM   #13
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Please give me an example of a bike only factories had available?
Every Factory backed 600cc squad running the Daytona class have bikes that cannot simply be duplicated from a privateer type budget. Graves Yamaha, Attack Kawi, Erion Honda all use specialized parts to build their bikes. DMG made those evil factory guys offer those parts to the public. Funny thing is that the DMG request didn't say they had to be affordable- just offered. Adding weight to the 848 or the air-cooled BMW (I know no BMW is a regular in the class) would put those bikes at a distinct disadvantage. Since the Aprillia is playing with 998 cc and there are no KTMs the 5lb weight difference is probably pretty close to fair. The Buell was playing with about a 100cc advantage- therefore, after 5 rounds DMG figured it was time to add weight. They said all along that this would be a work in progress- it should not be a suprise. Now Eslick has a choice- adapt to the weight of the bike (which should be easy) or train harder, lose 10lbs of body weight and hope for the best. Choice A is probably easier. Remember what Eslick said about the bike being a "stock" bike. He's right. Ken can probably call one of his friends at BRHD to confirm, but a friend of mine that knows Barney well said that Barney's bike (with exception to suspension mods) is the same bike that is sold on every HD dealer's floor. No suprises.
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Old 04-15-2009, 01:10 PM   #14
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So how do you single him out and not hurt anyone else in the process?
I agree that he should have moved on but he hasent. Dont see why someone doesnt just step up and take it from him,...like Ben has done. If anything I think Mladins a great stepping stone and tutor for our American riders to catapult them onto the world stage and succeed.
Like Ben has.

Also I think riders like Nicky and Hopper made the move too quickly. They would have been better off staying in the AMA and going against Mladin more, then maybe they would have done better now? Who knows just my 2!
Nicky would have done better? How does one do better than becoming the MotoGp World Champion which Hayden has already done?
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Old 04-15-2009, 01:21 PM   #15
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Nicky would have done better? How does one do better than becoming the MotoGp World Champion which Hayden has already done?
Have you ever heard "your only as good as your last race"?
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Old 04-15-2009, 01:36 PM   #16
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Have you ever heard "your only as good as your last race"?
So I guess Rossi should go back to 250s.

Hayden has a factory Ducati ride. It's not like he's floundering.
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Old 04-15-2009, 01:36 PM   #17
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Every Factory backed 600cc squad running the Daytona class have bikes that cannot simply be duplicated from a privateer type budget. Graves Yamaha, Attack Kawi, Erion Honda all use specialized parts to build their bikes. DMG made those evil factory guys offer those parts to the public. Funny thing is that the DMG request didn't say they had to be affordable- just offered. Adding weight to the 848 or the air-cooled BMW (I know no BMW is a regular in the class) would put those bikes at a distinct disadvantage. Since the Aprillia is playing with 998 cc and there are no KTMs the 5lb weight difference is probably pretty close to fair. The Buell was playing with about a 100cc advantage- therefore, after 5 rounds DMG figured it was time to add weight. They said all along that this would be a work in progress- it should not be a suprise. Now Eslick has a choice- adapt to the weight of the bike (which should be easy) or train harder, lose 10lbs of body weight and hope for the best. Choice A is probably easier. Remember what Eslick said about the bike being a "stock" bike. He's right. Ken can probably call one of his friends at BRHD to confirm, but a friend of mine that knows Barney well said that Barney's bike (with exception to suspension mods) is the same bike that is sold on every HD dealer's floor. No suprises.

So this is what I had original known, its just about the money. There is no models that Factories have that privateer cant race. Thats the same way its been forever. If you have the money and the talent you can win.
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Old 04-15-2009, 01:39 PM   #18
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"They would have been better off staying in the AMA and going against Mladin more, then maybe they would have done better now?"

Doubtful. Beating Mladin is easy when you are better than he is, which Nicky, Hopkins, and Spies certainly were. Moving to the next level is the best thing to improve your riding. You can't improve if you aren't riding the best and going against the best. The worst thing that happened to Nicky was the change to 800cc bikes which depend more on corner speed and not sliding it in an powering it out like the 1000cc bikes were best at. That was his style and it fit him better than these bikes. He is still a much better racer than Mladin will ever be. He just decided to challenge himself and became a World Champion, which is something Mladin will NEVER be. Mladin it the Little League champ though, and ruined Little League racing in the process. He has that to be proud of.
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Old 04-15-2009, 01:52 PM   #19
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So I guess Rossi should go back to 250s.

Hayden has a factory Ducati ride. It's not like he's floundering.
Ah,... Rossi finished 2nd Monday night? And hes won 8 world titles.


Haydens doing well finacially but he still finished down in 12th and if he doesn't start producing results he may look like Melandri did last year at the end of the season.
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Old 04-15-2009, 02:00 PM   #20
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"They would have been better off staying in the AMA and going against Mladin more, then maybe they would have done better now?"

Doubtful. Beating Mladin is easy when you are better than he is, which Nicky, Hopkins, and Spies certainly were. Moving to the next level is the best thing to improve your riding. You can't improve if you aren't riding the best and going against the best. The worst thing that happened to Nicky was the change to 800cc bikes which depend more on corner speed and not sliding it in an powering it out like the 1000cc bikes were best at. That was his style and it fit him better than these bikes. He is still a much better racer than Mladin will ever be. He just decided to challenge himself and became a World Champion, which is something Mladin will NEVER be. Mladin it the Little League champ though, and ruined Little League racing in the process. He has that to be proud of.

Not going to argue that moving on is going to make you better. Besides its just a thought. Oh and Hopkins never won the superbike title against Mladin. All Iam thinking is staying in AMA and beating him more than just one year, gather as much skill as you can then make the move.

Its a known fact that alot of people think Hopkins moved into motogp way to soon. Besides if you say the 800's dont suit Nicky riding style then how come Stoner has the same dirt track backround but doesnt have a problem even beating Rossi?
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