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Old 07-20-2010, 08:49 AM   #11
acecycleins
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Maybe I'm that way because of the unbelievably hard balancing of the old K bike wheels. It seemed they never nailed the front no matter what they tried.
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:05 AM   #12
The_AirHawk
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Originally Posted by MOKE1K View Post
I guess you could go without balancing if your not going over 60mph. So you've never had even the slightest wobble or hop when you took it over that speed?
So you're saying there's no "wobble or hop" when you balance the tires? On "perfectly balanced" tires I can still feel the road surface imperfections - those rollers don't make a "flat" surface, and they broom the shyte out of concrete roads so much these days, it might as well be a gravel road (compared to the way they used to build 'em). Seriously man, this isn't 1978 - even Kenda makes tires that are pretty close to being balanced, from the factory.

Tell me true, Moke - aside from the Track, how fast do you go at a sustained speed on the roads? If you're doin' much faster than "60" on the backroads around here, you (not "YOU" you, necessarily) are ****ing insane, have a Death Wish, or are plain Stupid. Seriously.

I use a balancer now, but that's because I have one.

One Pirelli I mounted-up for a friend didn't require any weights on my Parnes balancer - there was NO discernable heavy spot, anywhere.

I pay-attention to the manufacturers reference-marks, and actually read their published mounting data, and place the marks where they suggest. Helps a heluva lot.

Stop using Dunlops, and you won't need 7 or 8 ounces of weight just to keep the oscillations down to a manageable level.
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:21 AM   #13
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No mar rocks. I BS with the folks at every race due to my buddy owning one and becoming infamous with their staff every time he needed to change a tire. My last 4 tires were installed by myself at my buddies garage. Unfortunately he moved out of state and took the NO Mar with him and I need new rubber soon.
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:56 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by The_AirHawk View Post
So you're saying there's no "wobble or hop" when you balance the tires? On "perfectly balanced" tires I can still feel the road surface imperfections - those rollers don't make a "flat" surface, and they broom the shyte out of concrete roads so much these days, it might as well be a gravel road (compared to the way they used to build 'em). Seriously man, this isn't 1978 - even Kenda makes tires that are pretty close to being balanced, from the factory.

Tell me true, Moke - aside from the Track, how fast do you go at a sustained speed on the roads? If you're doin' much faster than "60" on the backroads around here, you (not "YOU" you, necessarily) are ****ing insane, have a Death Wish, or are plain Stupid. Seriously.

I use a balancer now, but that's because I have one.

One Pirelli I mounted-up for a friend didn't require any weights on my Parnes balancer - there was NO discernable heavy spot, anywhere.

I pay-attention to the manufacturers reference-marks, and actually read their published mounting data, and place the marks where they suggest. Helps a heluva lot.

Stop using Dunlops, and you won't need 7 or 8 ounces of weight just to keep the oscillations down to a manageable level.
Road imperfections are just that, but that's much different from the feeling you get while riding a bike that's tires are not balanced. Trust me Iv changed enough to know, usually I break the bead and slip the tire around the rim and lay the valve stem dot 180 then remount it. A common cure for a tire that wont balance on a machine correctly.

But your absolutely correct on the tires these day being much more balanced. I can't count how many times Iv gotten lucky and the rim didnt need balancing, no weights nothing. Not uncommon.

Besides that- why you worried about how fast I go on the street. We've all done it at one time or another. The racetrack is where I like to keep it most of the time. Occasionally on the weekend's if you know where to go you can locate the type of roads required for such speeds. But personally between you and I its the lean angle Iam addicted to. And you dont need to go all out to accomplish that. Tight and twisty as you go, is more to my liking. You know- the technical stuff.

And this leaves me with your last comment:" Stop using Dunlops, and you won't need 7 or 8 ounces of weight just to keep the oscillations down to a manageable level."

7 to 8oz of what, weed? This coming from the guy that doesnt go over 60mph? Did ya realize how important it is to have balanced tire's all day when your at 160mph on the back straight? I have been using Dunlops on and off since 89. I always go back to them, just a prefrence thing I guess. Predictable even after there gone.
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Old 07-20-2010, 02:11 PM   #15
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Maybe I'm that way because of the unbelievably hard balancing of the old K bike wheels. It seemed they never nailed the front no matter what they tried.
A lot of people are more comfortable with the electronic high speed balancers. I just despise them. Iv been doing my own street and race tires for a long time and the gravity or truing stand style balancers are the best in my book. I have never ever had a problem on the track or the street with it ever.

What made the BWM tire so hard to balance?
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Old 07-20-2010, 02:34 PM   #16
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You gotta keep your stash somewhere.

It was a bit of an exaggeration, but typically it has taken better than an ounce of weight to balance every Dunlop I've mounted, which is probably a couple-dozen by now. No matter what fiddling I do with the tire-position - that just moves the weight around, doesn't reduce it. I just accept it as a matter of course, and get on with it.

I never said I don't go over 60mph - I asked you "aside from the Track, how fast do you go at a sustained speed on the roads?"

I would guess not much more than the "flow of traffic". Considerably slower than Track speeds, I would say.

Look - we're arguing the same side of the issue here, and splitting hairs again. Do I want a balance as close as possible if I'm going out on the track? You betcha. But most people use their motos for this thing called "pleasure riding", with the next largest group called "commuters". I've found actually balancing tires for either of these purposes to be nearly superfluous. Oh, I check the balance of every tire I mount - but if adding only 1/4 to 1/2 oz. of weight will bring it into "full balance" - I generally just skip it. Typically, you won't notice it. Seriously.

It's not the amount of weight, but rather - it's the time you've got to put in to balance the damn thing that's the pain. That will almost-certainly double the time spent on a tire change. And my patience is finite.
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Old 07-20-2010, 04:54 PM   #17
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Balance Shmalance, just air 'em down to about 20 psi and you'll never know the difference
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Old 07-20-2010, 04:59 PM   #18
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Never had a problem on my K with a gravity balancer and the No Mar. Just have your spray bottle of soapy water topped off.
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:29 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_AirHawk View Post
You gotta keep your stash somewhere.

It was a bit of an exaggeration, but typically it has taken better than an ounce of weight to balance every Dunlop I've mounted, which is probably a couple-dozen by now. No matter what fiddling I do with the tire-position - that just moves the weight around, doesn't reduce it. I just accept it as a matter of course, and get on with it.

I never said I don't go over 60mph - I asked you "aside from the Track, how fast do you go at a sustained speed on the roads?"

I would guess not much more than the "flow of traffic". Considerably slower than Track speeds, I would say.

Look - we're arguing the same side of the issue here, and splitting hairs again. Do I want a balance as close as possible if I'm going out on the track? You betcha. But most people use their motos for this thing called "pleasure riding", with the next largest group called "commuters". I've found actually balancing tires for either of these purposes to be nearly superfluous. Oh, I check the balance of every tire I mount - but if adding only 1/4 to 1/2 oz. of weight will bring it into "full balance" - I generally just skip it. Typically, you won't notice it. Seriously.

It's not the amount of weight, but rather - it's the time you've got to put in to balance the damn thing that's the pain. That will almost-certainly double the time spent on a tire change. And my patience is finite.




I know, Airhawk I'm just F-bombing with you brother. Perhaps your problem with Dunlops is just that specific model tire not sure. Id have to witness how quickly it falls to it's heavy spot on the balancer. I don't think 1.5once's is uncommon I will say that. So what tire and bike?

As for the street speeds, As I grow wiser I usually don't do to much high speed on the roads,.. to much Obviously it depends where you live at, and where your riding. Iv lived in a lot of different States probably the best was Arizona. Florida on the other hand has some roads up north that you can go fast on.
I'd say you can hit triple digits for maybe a mile or two but that's about it. As for the highway Im usually at 80-85 just so I can stay infront of all the idiots. You may think its crazy but knock on wood my methods have kept me alive for 25yrs of riding.

Agreed we are splitting hairs as you stated. Obviously I like to go fast in the right places so I pay close attention to balancing. Plus if you worked in a shop for as long as I have you deffinately have to pay close attention to the balancing. If you think taking the time to balance a tire takes longer, try having to pop the whole tire off again because some customer says he feels a slight hop. Iv been trained to do the job once and do it right. In a shop you have to get it right the first time or your losing money. It took me a while to get in under the times of changing a tire so that I could make decent money. Taking in to account that your changing front and rears on anything from a scooter, to a goldwing. 30mins for one tire, nowadays its even less time I believe.

And lastly what is this "pleasure riding" thing you speak off. You mean people ride to see the scenery? Thats weird! The pleasure I recieve is from a good drive out of a corner and then jab the clutch quickly to get the front end to loft into the air, thats my pleasure. Wha else could make you feel that good. Scaring yourself for me is funnier than seeing a pretty back drop while riding.
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:37 AM   #20
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I used to mount my own tires using a big C-clamp to break the bead. I never bothered with balancing. Even traveling over 100mph on my GSX1100 I never noticed any out-of-balance indications. Sure it'd better to balance them but tires are a lot better then they used to be. For people who travel at cruiser speeds balancing is nice insurance but probably unnecessary.
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