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Administrator · 06-05-2008, 11:52 AM

Original Article:
Michigan considers helmetless permits

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Zeniac · 06-09-2008, 06:25 AM

As a rider for over 40 years and an ER nurse in Texas I find it distressing that people just don't get it when it comes to riding without a helmet. It may be a personal choice, and that I can respect, however, in most cases we see in the ER, there are loved ones that are affected for life. If you die because of a head injury caused by not wearing a helmet, it is not a tragic accident, it is a foolhardy choice, end of story, your life is over and we all move on.

In most cases however, it is not the highway crash at 70mph and instant death that is the outcome of a MVC, but more often its a 30mph crash in an urban setting where a cage carelessly pulls out in front of a motorcycle and the rider (and/or passenger) are thrown off the bike and often striking their heads on the pavement or concrete.

We had a guy last month that swerved to miss a dog at approx. 5mph in a parking lot, lost control, fell of the bike and struck his head on one of those concrete parking stall barriers often seen in parking lots (doo-rag in place), and ended up in the OR getting a bore hole in his head to save his life. His pillion wife had a lid on and walked. She now will spend the rest of her life carring for a brained damaged husband and, we as tax payers, end up footing the bill. A 5mph minor mishap, turned into a lifetime of grief.

Before you ride without a helmet, stating it is your right, and that you should have the freedom to chose, ask yourself if your loved ones deserve a choice to chose as well, and if the American taxpayers should have the freedom to chose to deny funding the additional lifetime medical costs needed to care for people that do sustain brain injuries because of their choice, or should they have the freedom to pass the cost on to family members to carry the burden of the hundreds of thousands of additional dollars in expenses, not to mention lifetime loss of earnings.

For you advocates of no-helmets, ask yourself if your freedom to potentially enslave your own family to a lifetime of caring for a brain-damaged loved one and to burden your fellow citizens with costs of your care should be a choice that only you have a say in.

I may sound cynical, bit if you had to try to console a greaving family member after a needless death, or (worse in my opinion) permanent brain damage injury of a loved one, you may feel the same. As emergency practitioners in Texas, we see first hand the effects of a repeal of helmet laws and it's terrible consequences.

My dos centavos,

Zeniac

ps. I people really insist on riding w/o a helmet, they should be made to obtain a special insurance policy or put up a bond that will completely fund all expenses related to injuries sustained in a crash (regardless of fault) and the lifetime cost of caring for them to at least relieve the dollar cost burden from families and the taxpayer. Though this does nothing to compensate for the emotional grief experienced by loved ones, it does at least remove the financial burden.

longride · 06-09-2008, 06:30 AM

Riding a motorcycle is a personal choice too. If you get killed in a motorcycle accident when simply choosing an automobile would have saved your life, should your loved ones get to veto that choice too? Life has terrible consequences. Get used to it and have as much fun as you can while you are above ground, and if that includes riding without a helmet, so be it. Anything less and you are just taking up space.

sarnali2 · 06-09-2008, 06:58 AM

You make some excellent points zeniac, I really don't know why this is an issue that keeps coming up. The vast majority of motorcyclist wear helmets through choice, I don't know why we all have to look like petulant children because of the small percentage complaining about them. Riders that don't like a real helmet can wear a stupid beanie if they want, this is just like seat belt laws, just wear the dam* things and quit crying about it. It's fine to talk about personal freedom but when your head is skipping across the pavement they're nothing but empty words.

On the other hand as Darwin has pointed out, nature is a cruel and indifferent mistress and a brain that isn't smart enough to protect itself is ripe for the picking

mscuddy · 06-09-2008, 08:01 AM

All it takes is to bounce your nogging off a curb one time and if you survive you'll be wearing a helmet to bed even. Riding motorcycles on the street is dangerous, and even if you're wearing a helmet you can get really messed up, take it from me. I was wearing all my gear and didn't have a scratch or visible injury, but everything inside the skin bag was shattered. I could prattle on about this but wtf, let those who ride decide. (I survived my teenage years on a street motorcycle without a helmet).

Kenneth_Moore · 06-09-2008, 08:23 AM

As far as I can tell, when it's your day, it's your day. Our lives don't depend on helmets or anything else that we decide or do. I spent 30+ years doing just about anything and everything to kill, mangle, or maim myself, all to no avail. When God decides it's time for me to check out, I'm sure that is when I will, not before or after. A helment won't have any bearing on it.

Buzglyd · 06-09-2008, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarnali2

behind the 8 ball now it's pathetic. The government and Auto makers are still arguing CAFE standards for SUV's in 2020 while the whole market has experianced a paradigm shift to small cars.

They'll be lucky to survive, this is the third time the Big 3 have been bitten on the ass by this.

and they recently figured out that forcing ethanol on people was a gigantic mistake. Of course the mistake will never be corrected because too many are enjoying the gov't cash now.

I'm heading to DC tomorrow. I'll tell everyone I run into how much we hate 'em.

BrowningBAR · 06-09-2008, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarnali2

behind the 8 ball now it's pathetic. The government and Auto makers are still arguing CAFE standards for SUV's in 2020 while the whole market has experianced a paradigm shift to small cars.

They'll be lucky to survive, this is the third time the Big 3 have been bitten on the ass by this.

And it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. I bet 2 of the 3 big three either go under or get bought out by the end of this.

200 a barrel by end of year would not shock me at this point. Oil heating is going to kill me this year. It will cost me between 3500 and 4500 come this winter. Two years ago it cost me 1700.

seruzawa · 06-09-2008, 08:40 AM

My only concern is the widespread idea that society has the right to take away individual freedom because it might cause financial burden or trouble for someone else. Where do you stop? The same public health logic used to force helmet laws is also capable of justifying a totalitarian state far beyond any seen in history. It justifies the govt's ability to do literally anything and is the exact justification used by modern mass murderers... Stalin, Hitler, Castro, Pol Pot, etc. It spins out of control very rapidly and always creates more misery than it solves.

So what freedoms are okay? Which aren't? Who decides?

One thing I know for sure. People who are too stupid to wear helmets are going to off themselves in some other way if you force them to wear helmets. Stupidity cannot be banned. Especially since the people who push for and pass nanny state laws are generally amongst the stupidest you can find.

seruzawa · 06-09-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzglyd

PA will be lava by then. You'll be wearing shorts.

There is snow forecast for tomorrow. Heh heh.

Where is Algore when you need him?

06-05-2008, 11:52 AM	#1
Administrator Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: On My Bike Posts: 1	Michigan considers helmetless permits Original Article: Michigan considers helmetless permits Please discuss the Motorcycle.com article Michigan considers helmetless permits in our Motorcycle Forums below. Use the reply button to let others know your comments or feedback on the article. Constructive criticism is always appreciated, along with your thoughts and personal opinions on the bikes and products we have tested.

06-09-2008, 06:25 AM	#2
Zeniac Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5	Freedom for who? As a rider for over 40 years and an ER nurse in Texas I find it distressing that people just don't get it when it comes to riding without a helmet. It may be a personal choice, and that I can respect, however, in most cases we see in the ER, there are loved ones that are affected for life. If you die because of a head injury caused by not wearing a helmet, it is not a tragic accident, it is a foolhardy choice, end of story, your life is over and we all move on. In most cases however, it is not the highway crash at 70mph and instant death that is the outcome of a MVC, but more often its a 30mph crash in an urban setting where a cage carelessly pulls out in front of a motorcycle and the rider (and/or passenger) are thrown off the bike and often striking their heads on the pavement or concrete. We had a guy last month that swerved to miss a dog at approx. 5mph in a parking lot, lost control, fell of the bike and struck his head on one of those concrete parking stall barriers often seen in parking lots (doo-rag in place), and ended up in the OR getting a bore hole in his head to save his life. His pillion wife had a lid on and walked. She now will spend the rest of her life carring for a brained damaged husband and, we as tax payers, end up footing the bill. A 5mph minor mishap, turned into a lifetime of grief. Before you ride without a helmet, stating it is your right, and that you should have the freedom to chose, ask yourself if your loved ones deserve a choice to chose as well, and if the American taxpayers should have the freedom to chose to deny funding the additional lifetime medical costs needed to care for people that do sustain brain injuries because of their choice, or should they have the freedom to pass the cost on to family members to carry the burden of the hundreds of thousands of additional dollars in expenses, not to mention lifetime loss of earnings. For you advocates of no-helmets, ask yourself if your freedom to potentially enslave your own family to a lifetime of caring for a brain-damaged loved one and to burden your fellow citizens with costs of your care should be a choice that only you have a say in. I may sound cynical, bit if you had to try to console a greaving family member after a needless death, or (worse in my opinion) permanent brain damage injury of a loved one, you may feel the same. As emergency practitioners in Texas, we see first hand the effects of a repeal of helmet laws and it's terrible consequences. My dos centavos, Zeniac ps. I people really insist on riding w/o a helmet, they should be made to obtain a special insurance policy or put up a bond that will completely fund all expenses related to injuries sustained in a crash (regardless of fault) and the lifetime cost of caring for them to at least relieve the dollar cost burden from families and the taxpayer. Though this does nothing to compensate for the emotional grief experienced by loved ones, it does at least remove the financial burden. Last edited by Zeniac : 06-09-2008 at 07:39 AM. Reason: Added additional comment

06-09-2008, 06:30 AM	#3
longride Super Duper Mod Man Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Anywhere they let me Posts: 10,484	Riding a motorcycle is a personal choice too. If you get killed in a motorcycle accident when simply choosing an automobile would have saved your life, should your loved ones get to veto that choice too? Life has terrible consequences. Get used to it and have as much fun as you can while you are above ground, and if that includes riding without a helmet, so be it. Anything less and you are just taking up space. __________________ I'm a knucklehead

06-09-2008, 06:58 AM	#4
sarnali2 Aging Cafe` Racer Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sittin' down by my window, lookin' at the rain. Posts: 8,132	You make some excellent points zeniac, I really don't know why this is an issue that keeps coming up. The vast majority of motorcyclist wear helmets through choice, I don't know why we all have to look like petulant children because of the small percentage complaining about them. Riders that don't like a real helmet can wear a stupid beanie if they want, this is just like seat belt laws, just wear the dam* things and quit crying about it. It's fine to talk about personal freedom but when your head is skipping across the pavement they're nothing but empty words. On the other hand as Darwin has pointed out, nature is a cruel and indifferent mistress and a brain that isn't smart enough to protect itself is ripe for the picking __________________ "Carpe` Throttelum -Loud Suits Save Lives" "All the BMW riders in the room, I want you to leave. Now. Out. "

06-09-2008, 08:01 AM	#5
mscuddy MODERATOR X Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Next to my still checkin the temp. Posts: 5,444	All it takes is to bounce your nogging off a curb one time and if you survive you'll be wearing a helmet to bed even. Riding motorcycles on the street is dangerous, and even if you're wearing a helmet you can get really messed up, take it from me. I was wearing all my gear and didn't have a scratch or visible injury, but everything inside the skin bag was shattered. I could prattle on about this but wtf, let those who ride decide. (I survived my teenage years on a street motorcycle without a helmet). __________________ A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.

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06-09-2008, 08:23 AM	#6
Kenneth_Moore Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: VIsiting the GIft Shop in the Pit of DIspair Posts: 7,118	As far as I can tell, when it's your day, it's your day. Our lives don't depend on helmets or anything else that we decide or do. I spent 30+ years doing just about anything and everything to kill, mangle, or maim myself, all to no avail. When God decides it's time for me to check out, I'm sure that is when I will, not before or after. A helment won't have any bearing on it. __________________ www.kennethmoore.org

06-09-2008, 08:40 AM	#9
seruzawa Robby Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: 8501 ft. Posts: 16,803	My only concern is the widespread idea that society has the right to take away individual freedom because it might cause financial burden or trouble for someone else. Where do you stop? The same public health logic used to force helmet laws is also capable of justifying a totalitarian state far beyond any seen in history. It justifies the govt's ability to do literally anything and is the exact justification used by modern mass murderers... Stalin, Hitler, Castro, Pol Pot, etc. It spins out of control very rapidly and always creates more misery than it solves. So what freedoms are okay? Which aren't? Who decides? One thing I know for sure. People who are too stupid to wear helmets are going to off themselves in some other way if you force them to wear helmets. Stupidity cannot be banned. Especially since the people who push for and pass nanny state laws are generally amongst the stupidest you can find. __________________ I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.