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-   -   H-D workers approve deal (http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/motorcycle-news/7699-h-d-workers-approve-deal.html)

seruzawa 04-08-2008 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarnali2 (Post 182023)
It's the annonimity of the interweb, there's no way KP could talk all the sh*t he does to someones face. The whole High School debating society where everyone sits around and argues obscure points doesn't fly past High School. Here or on the web in general he or anyone else can insult and badmouth anyone they want with very little chance of having to deal with the consquences, it's a perfect world for those types...all the attention they want without the risk of seriously getting their lights punched out.

Actually anarajalalala does make some good points. I just don't feel like giving in an inch on him. Maybe after a couple more years in Brazil his brain will start to thaw. He did live in Finland you know. He's probably got frostbite of the temporal lobes. Imagine living in a place with only 90 days a year above freezing. That's even worse than Cheesebeast's home.

The_AirHawk 04-08-2008 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anrajala (Post 181995)
>What's that unemployment rate, again? Our nationwide
>rate is 5.2%. Some would have you believe that's high
>and the US employment outlook is bleak

The US unemployment rate can not be compared to those of the civilized countries. Why? Because we have unemployment benefits. And universal health care and charge free education. Consequently the unemployed are often not too much in a hurry to find a new job. Frankly speaking, some are not in a hurry at all.

Of course this leads to certain well known economic inefficiencies i.e. bums. But people are willing to pay it because its the price of freedom. Your boss gets tiresome? Tell him to sod off. Go to Tuscany to sample some of their wine for a few months.

- cruiz-euro


And the economic advantages of this are............?

I'm sorry, I just don't get where you're coming-from here.

The Government T!t is only so big - too many piglets suckling all at once, there's sure to be a bit of squealin'...........

acecycleins 04-08-2008 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anrajala (Post 181995)
>What's that unemployment rate, again? Our nationwide
>rate is 5.2%. Some would have you believe that's high
>and the US employment outlook is bleak

The US unemployment rate can not be compared to those of the civilized countries. Why? Because we have unemployment benefits. And universal health care and charge free education. Consequently the unemployed are often not too much in a hurry to find a new job. Frankly speaking, some are not in a hurry at all.

Of course this leads to certain well known economic inefficiencies i.e. bums. But people are willing to pay it because its the price of freedom. Your boss gets tiresome? Tell him to sod off. Go to Tuscany to sample some of their wine for a few months.

- cruiz-euro

What did you say? You have a NANNY STATE? That's what it sounds like. I can't understand why it's not alright to fail at something. I OWN my agency. I produce over 3/4 of a Million annually in written premium and earn over $150K annual in commissions. I built this place. Hard work, clever marketing and long hours. Can I fail? Yep! Would I do it again? Yep! I don't need Nanny Gov't to hold my hand and tell me it will be alright.
Unions killed my grandfather's business. He OWNED three of the largest machine and cast plants in Michigan from the '40s to the late '80s. The UAW chipped away at the profit margin so badly that all three eventually were sold off or closed because there wasn't enough left to grow the companies. So, instead of the UAW looking at the long term and understanding that business had to evolve they killed it and became the unemployed. Great job- wankers!
I have excellent health care coverage with $15 co-pays and get $10 scripts. I invest in my own 401K and overall believe that no onion backed job is a better deal than what I do. My wife's job is not union, either. She makes near $90k annual for Turner Studios and has the coolest IT gig ever. With all the bells and whistles she has a job value of close to $110k annual. All that and she doesn't have to worry about a strike. Bet those SAG writers wished they had a better gig after those 100 days of eating mac and cheese and peanutbutter sandwiches. Harley and their union did the right thing by renegotiating the deal. If they hadn't HD would be shutting down during the summer like Chrysler is going to do. Go Union!

Cheesebeast 04-08-2008 02:35 PM

Da Comrade Seruzawa, it has been a hard winter at Chez Cheesebeast.

The snow has begun to recede, dropping in its wake its suspended collections. Half-frozen apple cores and the carcasses of small rodents are gently settling to the brown lifeless ground.

At any moment from that muddy waste will spring thousands of stinging insects and I will finally become completely unhinged. My blood will be added to the cycle of life, through which the earth is once again made green and lush. What sinister secret lays beneath a summer meadow? I now know what the crickets chirp for. They are chirping for my blood! MY BLOOD! Oh the horror of it all!

Did I mention it has been a tough winter?

seruzawa 04-08-2008 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheesebeast (Post 182031)
Da Comrade Seruzawa, it has been a hard winter at Chez Cheesebeast.

The snow has begun to recede, dropping in its wake its suspended collections. Half-frozen apple cores and the carcasses of small rodents are gently settling to the brown lifeless ground.

At any moment from that muddy waste will spring thousands of stinging insects and I will finally become completely unhinged. My blood will be added to the cycle of life, through which the earth is once again made green and lush. What sinister secret lays beneath a summer meadow? I now know what the crickets chirp for. They are chirping for my blood! MY BLOOD! Oh the horror of it all!

Did I mention it has been a tough winter?

Whenever this long winter has made me blue I just harken back to that one December in 1969 on the USS Henry W Tucker, 200 miles of the coast of the USSR near Vladivostok with a 80mph gale blowing off Siberia, 45 degree rolls = no sleep, and ice forming on the interior hull of the ship, 3 section watches in the engine room where we had to wear cold weather gear in spite of the 850 degree steam plant.... and things don't seem to bad. And then I think of Minnesota and things seem downright rosy.

The_AirHawk 04-08-2008 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acecycleins (Post 182030)
Harley and their union did the right thing by renegotiating the deal. If they hadn't HD would be shutting down during the summer like Chrysler is going to do. Go Union!

Not to beat the Union drum or anything - but ALL the automakers shut-down (to some-extent) during the summer for retooling.

And Chrysler-valuation and reliabity jokes aside, the "German Engineering" is what nearly destroyed Chrysler - they went-into that $36B deal in the late-'90s with an amazing amount of goodwill from the UAW, as the only one of the "Big Three" in the Black, with over $12B in CASH just sitting in the bank, brand-new $13B Chrysler Technology Center just bought-&-paid for, MAJOR upgrades to 3 of its assembly plants (bought & paid for), TWO profitable light-truck platforms and THREE new car-platforms (all profitable), FIVE brand-names, lowest amount of product-complaints of the Big Three; the smallest bonus paid to anyone in 1998 was nearly $4000 (to a Janitor who'd been with ChryCo for only a few months!).

Now, ten-years later, the Chrysler arm of Daimler-Chrysler was valued at Doodly-Squat, two of their brand names are Dead-&-Gone, reliability ratings are in the toilet, sales are in the toilet, UAW HATES everyone drawing a Salary, and they're dead-F'n Broke and in debt up to their eyeballs. (but NOT as far as GM or Ford!)

Hell, Mercedes frakkin' PAID Cerberus to take Chrysler!

So much for that "Superior European Business-Management Model", Huh?

seruzawa 04-08-2008 07:34 PM

Ha!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_AirHawk (Post 182037)
Not to beat the Union drum or anything - but ALL the automakers shut-down (to some-extent) during the summer for retooling.

And Chrysler-valuation and reliabity jokes aside, the "German Engineering" is what nearly destroyed Chrysler - they went-into that $36B deal in the late-'90s with an amazing amount of goodwill from the UAW, as the only one of the "Big Three" in the Black, with over $12B in CASH just sitting in the bank, brand-new $13B Chrysler Technology Center just bought-&-paid for, MAJOR upgrades to 3 of its assembly plants (bought & paid for), TWO profitable light-truck platforms and THREE new car-platforms (all profitable), FIVE brand-names, lowest amount of product-complaints of the Big Three; the smallest bonus paid to anyone in 1998 was nearly $4000 (to a Janitor who'd been with ChryCo for only a few months!).

Now, ten-years later, the Chrysler arm of Daimler-Chrysler was valued at Doodly-Squat, two of their brand names are Dead-&-Gone, reliability ratings are in the toilet, sales are in the toilet, UAW HATES everyone drawing a Salary, and they're dead-F'n Broke and in debt up to their eyeballs. (but NOT as far as GM or Ford!)

Hell, Mercedes frakkin' PAID Cerberus to take Chrysler!

So much for that "Superior European Business-Management Model", Huh?

There's plenty of blame to go around in our demented auto industry. Unions think that foreign competition is some sort of phony plot and that thousands of idle "workers" deserve full paychecks. The Not-So-Big-3 managers haven't figured out that people expect a $20,000 to last 10 years and 200K miles without major repairs. There are no innocents in that arena. All incompetence and greed. Unions and management alike.

anrajala 04-11-2008 03:49 PM

Year in, year out generally America generates more wealth than Europe (right now being almost an exception) that comes from people working harder. Less vacation, more hours, more crap taken from the boss, people not getting unemployment benefits etc. It has paid off, you have double the consumption power that you had in the seventies.

But was this a wise choice? Are you happier? Maybe you really ought to have 9 week annual vacation like the frenchies. The downside is you have to shoehorn your lard arse from the ample bench of GMC truck into some ridiculously small and cheap Renault Clio or Fiat Uno. It just might be worth it.

- cruiz-euro

anrajala 04-11-2008 04:00 PM

Ahh the debates that used to rage between you and Kpaul. Battle of the titans.

- cruiz-euro

anrajala 04-11-2008 04:32 PM

Tsk tsk longride. You are all upset? What's up, I have been very understading with you lately. I understand your problems. Whatever appalling carbage you have passed (and frankly there's been plenty) I've let it pass. Even when in that HD Nylon Coat story you were prancing around like a deranged member of a particulary deviant sexual minority. Good lord.

- cruiz-euro


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