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Old 08-11-2010, 05:14 AM   #51
seruzawa
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Point of order - the current Triumph concern has nothing to do with the old workers co-operative at Meriden, that finally collapsed in the early '80's, other than the current owner bought up the defunct business kept the brand names and built houses on the old factory acreage...
There were Les Harris Triumphs built all the way until around 1986. Bloor bought the company and while production stopped for a few years while the new bikes were designed and built the company never stopped operations and disappeared like Indian did for 50 years.
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Old 08-11-2010, 06:25 AM   #52
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There were Les Harris Triumphs built all the way until around 1986. Bloor bought the company and while production stopped for a few years while the new bikes were designed and built the company never stopped operations and disappeared like Indian did for 50 years.
Les Harris built triumphs under license from Bloor - basically assembled from left over tooling and stock. They were made in Newton Abbot in Devon, not the old Meriden factory.

As soon as Bloor was ready to start production Les lost the rights to make the old Bonneville. The new Triumph works was built at Hinkley and the entire business was new, new bikes, new factory, new staff. "Triumph' only in name - it was nothing to do with the old business.
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Old 08-11-2010, 06:40 AM   #53
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Les Harris built triumphs under license from Bloor - basically assembled from left over tooling and stock. They were made in Newton Abbot in Devon, not the old Meriden factory.

As soon as Bloor was ready to start production Les lost the rights to make the old Bonneville. The new Triumph works was built at Hinkley and the entire business was new, new bikes, new factory, new staff. "Triumph' only in name - it was nothing to do with the old business.
Except for where they are building updated Bonnevilles and Triples and the company remained incorporated and active all along which means that there is no "new" Triumph corporation. It just changed hands and redesigned it's offerings. May as well say that Kawasaki today has nothing to do with Kawasaki of 1967 because they don't build road going two-strokes.

Unlike Indian which completely disappeared in 1954 and 50 years later some guys bought rights to the name and now pretend to sell "110th anniversary" motorcycles to people dumb enough to believe it.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:05 AM   #54
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Except for where they are building updated Bonnevilles and Triples and the company remained incorporated and active all along which means that there is no "new" Triumph corporation. It just changed hands and redesigned it's offerings. May as well say that Kawasaki today has nothing to do with Kawasaki of 1967 because they don't build road going two-strokes.
When they started in the early '90's they were making 'modern' (styled) fours and triples and any idea of a twin, let alone a retro one, was completely dismissed by the factory. The bikes had no connection with the old concern at all. Nothing. They shared no parts, were not designed by the same people, not made with the old tooling, not assembled on the same production lines.

Clearly the market has changed since then and 'retro' bikes are more popular (and people have forgotten the angst the old factory caused and the shoddy bikes they sold) - so making a retro twin had to be a no brainer. But there is really no connection at all between the bikes they make today and the ones of yesterday - unlike Harley who at least can trace a lineage from Pan, Knuckle, Shovels, Evo's to the Dyna.

But I agree with your comments about Indian and I'd add Norton and whatever other blast from the past that is being dug up in order to try to give some modern product 'history' it does not deserve. I should add the new Lotus F1 team to that list too.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:12 AM   #55
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Harris built Matchless G80s in the middle 80s. I insure one for a customer/collector.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:15 AM   #56
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The point is Triumph as a corporate entity remained in business. Building modern bikes like the Trophy which I have owned as well as 2 new Bonneville's was Bloor's way of showing that they were keeping up with the times and not relying on name alone. Unlike the various iterations of Indian that are for the most part assembled bikes using Harley aftermarket parts and fringed saddlebags.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:53 AM   #57
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Harris built Matchless G80s in the middle 80s. I insure one for a customer/collector.
That's right - as the Triumph license expired he used the factory to make the rather plain and simple Rotax engined road going singles.

Don't think he made much money out of them. I forget how he got the rights to the Matchelss name too.
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:03 AM   #58
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The point is Triumph as a corporate entity remained in business.
No it didn't. The co-op closed, the factory shut down and (if I recall correctly) Bloor bought the factory, land and whatever remained as a job lot from the receivers. I think Les Harris wanted to buy the factory and make the Bonneville so that Bloor let him (albeit in a small way) do so worked out for both - but it was always going to be for a short time as there was no benefit in the new Triumph concern confusing customers with two different bikes.

You know the new Triumph's Hinkley bikes have a different 'Triumph' logo to the old Meriden bikes don't you?
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Old 08-11-2010, 11:24 AM   #59
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Yes, as I said I've owned 3 of them. The tail goes from the R to the H instead of from the H to under the I...

I learned to ride on my dad's '66 Mountain Cub and twin pipe CZ ISDT bike. I've been around bikes for quite awhile.

I assume "receivership" in England is the same as "Bankruptcy" here? That being the case the company didn't go out of business they filled bankruptcy and John Bloor bought them lock, stock and barrel with Les Harris still manufacturing parts and bikes under Bloors ownership.

So, the company as an entity merely changed hands. Just like Harley Davidson went from the Davidson family to AMF and back to private ownership with Vaughn Beals running the show.
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Old 08-11-2010, 12:26 PM   #60
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Yes, as I said I've owned 3 of them. The tail goes from the R to the H instead of from the H to under the I...

I learned to ride on my dad's '66 Mountain Cub and twin pipe CZ ISDT bike. I've been around bikes for quite awhile.

I assume "receivership" in England is the same as "Bankruptcy" here? That being the case the company didn't go out of business they filled bankruptcy and John Bloor bought them lock, stock and barrel with Les Harris still manufacturing parts and bikes under Bloors ownership.

So, the company as an entity merely changed hands. Just like Harley Davidson went from the Davidson family to AMF and back to private ownership with Vaughn Beals running the show.
BTW. The slight change in the logo is not enough to qualify as a new trademark. If you think so try selling your own line of Triumph clothes with the logo tail going from the T to the H and see how long it takes to get dragged into court.
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